Hi all!

This is another "blame game" horary. But hopefully simpler as this time there are only two suspects!

Background info:
My brother borrowed my van this week. When he brought it back he showed me the front passenger side wheel arch, which has been very badly damaged. He told me that someone must have driven into it while it was parked. I accepted this story. But later in the day I told my mother, who looked at it and asked me if I thought my brother was lying. I thought back over the discussion my brother and I had, and realised that if he had parked it where he said he had parked it, the passenger side would have been up on the kerb, away from the road, and therefore it would have been impossible for anyone to have driven into it!!! My mother was convinced that my brother was lying, and he had damaged it but didn't want to admit it. I'm not sure if his story was a bit wobbly because he was tired after driving it back to me, or because he was lying. So I asked, "Who damaged the van?"

22:07 BST
5/7/2007
Penrith, UK

21 Capricorn rises.

I have taken these houses:

I am the querent so my brother is the 3rd house of siblings.

The unknown driver who crashed into the van is the 7th house of open enemies.

The van is my possession, the 2nd house.

I thought that the culprit would be shown by the ruler of Lord 2, or by the planet which most recently aspected Lord 2.

Lord 2 is Jupiter R at 11 Sag.
Lord 3 is Venus at 25 Leo.
Lord 7 is the Moon at 19 Pisces.

Looking at the aspects I see Lord 7 is separating from a square to Lord 2, although it has trined the Sun since squaring Lord 2.

Lord 3 is in an out of orb trine to Lord 2 - indicating he has been in contact with the van in the past (separating aspect) but didn't damage it?

This looks to me like some unknown person did the damage and my brother is not lying.

However - I notice Mars in Taurus is sitting on the 3rd house cusp. This would be an affliction to the 3rd house. Could this show that he is lying? Or a bad driver

I'm unsure with this chart as the receptions don't make much sense... Why would Lord 7 squaring Lord 2 result in damage when Lord 7 is in the sign of Lord 2?

Also, I admit there is some confusion over the house to use for my brother as my mother was very upset at the time when I decided to ask. If I use the 5th for my brother (as my mother's child), Lord 5 is Mercury R at 3 Cancer, which would indicate a slippery tongued person who may not be telling the truth. Lord 2 is in the detriment of Lord 5, perhaps indicating Lord 5 did the damage. However, there is no aspect from Lord 5 to Lord 2.

So, from my analysis it looks like my brother is innocent either way.

Does anyone have any ideas about this chart?

And how could I find out more about the person that did the damage? If it was damaged outside my brother's house as he says, it may be a neighbour that did it. Any chance of working out what kind of person or what kind of vehicle did it? Then he can keep a lookout for a suspiciously damaged car with bits of my van's green paint on it!! It's going to cost a fortune to fix and I can't claim on my insurance unless I want to lose my no claims discount unless we somehow find the culprit and make them pay!

Thanks,

Keren

Hi KH,

Maybe a different perspective on the question. I'm wondering if the question isn't (or shouldn't) actually be: did my brother damage the van, first, and THEN, 'if not, who did?'. Meaning that then you look at the 3rd (and not complicate things with 'My mother's child' sorts of ideas!) for your brother. If your brother is out of orb with Lord 2, it probably means that he *didn't* damage the van.

I'm wondering, also, whether a neighbour in fact did it as you suggested: Mars in House 3, afflicted.

If he had parked it on the kerb it's entirely possible that someone backed into it; people park 'backwards' all the time, e.g. against traffic. It could have been clipped or backed into quite easily.

Sorry, not much help. Maybe look for the neighbour's car in House 5; colours, etc.?

GH

I almost don?t want to look at this chart. I once told my husband exactly the same story when I crashed his car. I felt bad enough as it was and didn?t need his lecture. He was always suspicious about that but I got away with it because he couldn?t prove I was lying. The truth came out eventually in exchange for something I needed him to admit to

Are you sure you need to know this?

I agree with Gunhilde that you are probably making this signification more complicated than it needs to be (as we do with our personal horaries), and her suggestion on judging the viability of the brother?s report as the first step seems very sensible.

Straightaway I thought the chart should hinge on whether your brother can be seen as free from guilt and suspicion. But his significator is peregrine and angular in the 7th house, corrupted by the conjunction of Saturn and the opposition of Neptune. How could you trust the word of a significator in that state? Let alone the fact that he has Mars, the natural significator of accidents on his cusp. In his defence, you know he didn?t mean to do it. It?s an awkward situation, much easier when you?re married I suppose because it ends up being a shared loss anyway. Bottom line, I think he did it Keren, or he?s hiding some involvement in the crash. But I may be biased.

Oh, crikey, yes! Mars on 3rd = *brother*. Here I was, looking at 'neighbour'! Sheesh.

I'm afraid I agree with Deb, Keren. Can you casually mention to your brother that you did a horary and found out who did it; maybe pull a confession out of him that way?

Dear oh dear.

Mars as natural significator of accidents - too true! I hadn't considered that!

I had looked at the state of Lord 3 and thought "Hmm, not good". Venus is peregrine and right next to that nasty Saturn. I hadn't noticed the Neptune opposition but this also figures. My brother is a basically honest person, but sometimes tells whopping great lies for reasons unfathomable to me - probably to do with his 12th house Moon...

I think on balance perhaps he is not telling the whole truth. Which is disappointing. I'll try to talk to him and see where it goes.

Thanks all for the input.

Keren

Well... my mother spoke to him on the phone... he stuck to his story. But today the garage we took it to said they would be surprised that much damage could be done by a passing car! Certainly if someone drove into it they must have seriously damaged their vehicle!! It doesn't really matter how it happened anyway, because in the end I will have to pick up the bill either way. just as I was about to go on holiday next week too!

Maybe he'll come clean later, like Deb

Hello Keren,

I find this to be a rather interesting Horary, and I think you have received some good feedback.

Mars is of course the natural significator of brothers and with it on the 3rd cusp gives us a strong indication that this has to be paid attention to as a secondary significator for your brother. Mars has just passed an exact conj. via antiscia to Saturn--Lord 1, and further that Saturn has recently contacted the 3rd cusp by antiscia. I would interpret this to mean that he is indeed hiding something from you.

Antiscia most often carries the sense of something hidden. Venus his main significator has also rather recently past the antiscia of Mars. Even were we to take Mars as the significator of accidents, Venus having recently passed it via antiscia would indicate that he-lord 3, was concealing something with regard to the accident. Again as an accident significator it sitting on your brother's house may very well be enough to say that he was responsible for it.

If we were to wonder why? Venus can also be taken to represent his 2nd house, which is obviously not in good shape( conj, Saturn, peregrine and with Alcyone on his 2nd cusp) so his finances may be problematic right now, and attached to the common sense thought that he wants to avoid paying for damages with an already potntially hindered pocket book.

Take care,

Yasha


This is another "blame game" horary. But hopefully simpler as this time there are only two suspects!

Background info:
My brother borrowed my van this week. When he brought it back he showed me the front passenger side wheel arch, which has been very badly damaged. He told me that someone must have driven into it while it was parked. I accepted this story. But later in the day I told my mother, who looked at it and asked me if I thought my brother was lying. I thought back over the discussion my brother and I had, and realised that if he had parked it where he said he had parked it, the passenger side would have been up on the kerb, away from the road, and therefore it would have been impossible for anyone to have driven into it!!! My mother was convinced that my brother was lying, and he had damaged it but didn't want to admit it. I'm not sure if his story was a bit wobbly because he was tired after driving it back to me, or because he was lying. So I asked, "Who damaged the van?"

22:07 BST
5/7/2007
Penrith, UK

21 Capricorn rises.

I have taken these houses:

I am the querent so my brother is the 3rd house of siblings.

The unknown driver who crashed into the van is the 7th house of open enemies.

The van is my possession, the 2nd house.

I thought that the culprit would be shown by the ruler of Lord 2, or by the planet which most recently aspected Lord 2.

Lord 2 is Jupiter R at 11 Sag.
Lord 3 is Venus at 25 Leo.
Lord 7 is the Moon at 19 Pisces.

Looking at the aspects I see Lord 7 is separating from a square to Lord 2, although it has trined the Sun since squaring Lord 2.

Lord 3 is in an out of orb trine to Lord 2 - indicating he has been in contact with the van in the past (separating aspect) but didn't damage it?

This looks to me like some unknown person did the damage and my brother is not lying.

However - I notice Mars in Taurus is sitting on the 3rd house cusp. This would be an affliction to the 3rd house. Could this show that he is lying? Or a bad driver

I'm unsure with this chart as the receptions don't make much sense... Why would Lord 7 squaring Lord 2 result in damage when Lord 7 is in the sign of Lord 2?

Also, I admit there is some confusion over the house to use for my brother as my mother was very upset at the time when I decided to ask. If I use the 5th for my brother (as my mother's child), Lord 5 is Mercury R at 3 Cancer, which would indicate a slippery tongued person who may not be telling the truth. Lord 2 is in the detriment of Lord 5, perhaps indicating Lord 5 did the damage. However, there is no aspect from Lord 5 to Lord 2.

So, from my analysis it looks like my brother is innocent either way.

Does anyone have any ideas about this chart?

And how could I find out more about the person that did the damage? If it was damaged outside my brother's house as he says, it may be a neighbour that did it. Any chance of working out what kind of person or what kind of vehicle did it? Then he can keep a lookout for a suspiciously damaged car with bits of my van's green paint on it!! It's going to cost a fortune to fix and I can't claim on my insurance unless I want to lose my no claims discount unless we somehow find the culprit and make them pay!

Thanks,

Keren[/quote]

Hi Yasha,

Interesting points about the antiscia. I sometimes use them but usually forget to if there's other testimony in the chart. But you're completely right, especially with the "hidden" theme of deceit in this chart. Of course my brother has no money (never mind the fact that neither do I) and wouldn't want to pay for it. Either way it doesn't matter now, I'm not holding it against him. Eventually I will have to pay for the repairs. Poor van is still not fixed, and gathering rust

Thanks for your input, reminds me to look at antiscia next time

Keren

Hi Keren,

Did you ever find your chequebook? (Haven't checked other link; just being lazy ).

GH