Hello All,

Judging timing from Horary can be one of the trickier things to accomplish.

Here is a fun and clear example where accurate timing becomes very clear.

I was expecting my girlfriend to arrive at my home shortly. However, she was taking longer than it seemed she should. She called me to tell me that she was stuck in some pretty bad traffic, and she asked me to do a Horary of when I thought she would arrive? (Yes, she loves Horary as well).

Data: 8/11/07 1:42 pm Manhattan, NY, Asc 18 Scorpio.

At first I observed Mars, Lord 1, and found it peregrine sitting alone in the 7th house. Mars was hardly doing anything significant, so the answer didn't seem to lay there.

We notice however that the Moon has recently separated from Mars, translating its light. The Moon rules the 9th house of journeys. The 9th house was packed. I took this as a symbolism of traffic, and considering that all of the planets were fixed, the traffic was slow indeed.

With the Moon clearly being our main timing indicator we have to investigate where is it going. It moved on to Jupiter and then to Mercury, which were not convincing for timing, but then it moved on to contact the Sun. The Sun rules the tenth, but it is also the 4th from the 7th (My Home!). This had to be it. The Moon was 15 degrees away, so I took this to mean 15 minutes. This seemed to be the most reasonable indication of timing, as my girlfriend was not actually that far away.

Another thing to always be aware of in cases where the Moon is applying to its new Moon phase, is that this new Moon moment often indicates the ending of the matter at hand. So besides the Sun being my home, the very fact of the Moon ending its cycle can be enough to suggest it is the end of the journey.

Interestingly, the Moon also applies to square the Asc/Desc axis in 15 degrees as well. It is as though the chart is really encouraging us to be rather certain that 15 minutes if the number..

Regardless of how slow the traffic was that she was describing, we have to go with what the chart is telling us..

When she walked through my apartment door I looked at my cell phone and it was 1:57 pm, exactly 15 minute from when the question was posed. It is charts and moments like this that are a true joy..and of course fun to share with others.

Timing questions just really require practice upon practice.

May your own journeys move swiftly,

Yasha

Since your girlfriend was not so far away why would you look what the ruler of the 9th is doing? Was she coming from very long distance away or just from another location in the city? Moon being cadent and in the fixed sign probably would not represent minutes, but rather hours or days.
Mars, however is angular and is 15 deg. 48 min. away from sextile to Sun, significator of your home.

Yasha wrote: I was expecting my girlfriend to arrive at my home shortly. However, she was taking longer than it seemed she should. She called me to tell me that she was stuck in some pretty bad traffic, and she asked me to do a Horary of when I thought she would arrive? (Yes, she loves Horary as well).

I'm a little surprised you would get an accurate chart given the trivial nature of the question.

RC

Hello LeeLu:

--Since your girlfriend was not so far away why would you look what the ruler of the 9th is doing?

**She was coming from downtown Manhattan, but the purpose of the 9th house regrdardless of the actual distance will relate strongly as to whether something was a special journey or a routine every day travel experience. Besides, analysis of the chart leads us to Moon.

--- Moon being cadent and in the fixed sign probably would not represent minutes, but rather hours or days.

**But of course I think my girlfriend would have been rather sadened had I told her it would take 15 hours for her to reach me. We know that this timing must be minutes, and no other, regardless of cadency or fixidity. Sometimes reality will let us know that only 1 time unit is possible.

Mars, however is angular and is 15 deg. 48 min. away from sextile to Sun, significator of your home.

***The Sun is separating from Mars. If it were applying to the Sun I would absolutely use the Sun applying to Mars to show the effecting of the matter. However the Sun would have to move forward through Saturn and Venus then change into Virgo before moving on to square Mars. That's a whole lot to effect the matter and would not work well.

**Thanks for your comments.

Yasha

Hello RC:

--I'm a little surprised you would get an accurate chart given the trivial nature of the question.

**To my girlfriend this was no trivial matter. Not only did she want to get to my place, but had appointment to get to later on. But regardless of that, the speed of her journey was important to her. In my opinion, so long as a question is genuine, it is valid. Triviality I believe is in the eye of the beholder.

And the chart is a pretty straightforward expression of its validity.

Thanks for your comments..

Take care,

Yasha

Yasha wrote:
**To my girlfriend this was no trivial matter. Not only did she want to get to my place, but had appointment to get to later on. But regardless of that, the speed of her journey was important to her. In my opinion, so long as a question is genuine, it is valid. Triviality I believe is in the eye of the beholder.

Yasha

That makes it different then. I thought it was just that she was trying to test an idle question. From what I had read, such questions that aren't really important or relevant will not always produce accurate results. That was all I meant. If she had an appt., etc., then of course it was not such a case.

For example the other night, I was wondering about the trapped miners and wondered if they would be found alive. I noted the time of my question but because I have no real connection with the event or people, I figure my question on it would probably not produce a radical chart. I'm not sure about that but didn't spend a lot of time on it.

Your question did however move me to ask about a timing issue that is important to me. And so far, it is pretty amazing how accurate it's timing is looking to be. I will post it later.

RC

Yasha wrote:***The Sun is separating from Mars.

Of course, I completely disregarded the speed of the planets.

Hi Yasha,

The 15 degrees and 15 minutes is very interesting, it does seem to hit the bull?s eye. There are a number of possibilities for traditional 9th house meanings, but in a turned chart. If you qualify as a 7th house friend then the chart 9th house is your 3rd house where she is stuck in local traffic (nearby in your neighborhood).

Downtown Manhattan can seem like a foreign country (Chinatown, Little Italy) or long journey uptown to a completely different world, so I can understand the 9th in context of going somewhere unfamiliar but I?m not sure where those boundaries might blur. Since you had success turning the chart for L10 to be your L4, it is consistent with a turned 3rd. If your friend was stuck at 40th and Fifth in front of the NY Public Library, which is a huge, blocks long imposing landmark (or some such spot) then maybe 9th house to her (I?m stretching it). The turned 3rd seems a comfortable fit.

Thanks for a good example of timing ? I wish they were all so clear!

Christina

Hi RC,

--That makes it different then. I thought it was just that she was trying to test an idle question. From what I had read, such questions that aren't really important or relevant will not always produce accurate results. That was all I meant. If she had an appt., etc., then of course it was not such a case.

**It's ok. For the most part, in my experience so long as a question is genuine, even be it a simple curiosity, the chart is valid. And many times charts will just reflect so clearly the situation at hand, that we know we are dealing with a good chart. That is another way to tell.

For example the other night, I was wondering about the trapped miners and wondered if they would be found alive. I noted the time of my question but because I have no real connection with the event or people, I figure my question on it would probably not produce a radical chart. I'm not sure about that but didn't spend a lot of time on it.

**Just because you have no direct connection, being a relative of the miners, etc. doesn't exclude this chart from being radical. If your curiosity is genuine, then it will produce a radical chart.

Your question did however move me to ask about a timing issue that is important to me. And so far, it is pretty amazing how accurate it's timing is looking to be. I will post it later.

**Sounds interesting. As timing questions do require practice like anything else. Certainly post it when you are ready.

Yasha

Hi Christina,

--The 15 degrees and 15 minutes is very interesting, it does seem to hit the bull?s eye. There are a number of possibilities for traditional 9th house meanings, but in a turned chart. If you qualify as a 7th house friend then the chart 9th house is your 3rd house where she is stuck in local traffic (nearby in your neighborhood).

***I like your thinking here, and in another case this application could very well be true. But she was somewhere stuck around Canal street which is out of my neighborhood, I live in Chelsea.

Downtown Manhattan can seem like a foreign country (Chinatown, Little Italy) or long journey uptown to a completely different world, so I can understand the 9th in context of going somewhere unfamiliar but I?m not sure where those boundaries might blur. Since you had success turning the chart for L10 to be your L4, it is consistent with a turned 3rd. If your friend was stuck at 40th and Fifth in front of the NY Public Library, which is a huge, blocks long imposing landmark (or some such spot) then maybe 9th house to her (I?m stretching it). The turned 3rd seems a comfortable fit.

**Indeed the 9th and 3rd house relationship can become blurred if we only think in terms of distance, because who is to say at one point there is a shift. It is why I think it is best to look at things as a special trip, verus a place one visits on a normal basis. My trip to the Grocery store is the 3rd, but if I go to a Whole Foods market on the upper west side to check out what their market is like it is the 9th.

Thanks for a good example of timing ? I wish they were all so clear!

**You are welcome. And yes, it would be nice if all were as clear. We can just be thankful when we are handed the easier ones.

Yasha

Hi Yasha,

The street orientation is appreciated. I see what you mean about the 9th house and I will keep it in mind for future horary charts. I have seen the opposite used regards the 3rd. For example, someone makes frequent trips between a foreign city and their hometown (say New York and Rome) such that the other city becomes "local" and very familiar to them. A horary about a trip to Rome could be a 3rd house question rather than 9th (Lee Lehman).

It may not be relevant, but I find it curious that the Moon rules the 9th, she also rules waterways and your friend was stuck on Canal St, which was originally a water canal and marshy area - and it is the street where Little Italy meets Chinatown.

Christina

Hello Christina,

--It may not be relevant, but I find it curious that the Moon rules the 9th, she also rules waterways and your friend was stuck on Canal St, which was originally a water canal and marshy area - and it is the street where Little Italy meets Chinatown.

**Although this is not relevant to achieve the answer, your thinking is open to seing potentail details, where even if not relevant can be interesting nontheless, and especially so in our practice of being aware of how the symbols may take form. I cannot say that she was exactly at Canal street but close by it nontheless. But here is the neat thing, running with your idea. If we see the cusp of the 9th is Cancer, and the cusp shows the beginning of her journey,, her actual journey began at" Water Street!!!"" Neat eh?

Yasha