Hello Peter,

I have a few thoughts that might be helpful to you with regard to how to approach such a query.

This kind of a question can be seen as a "will the deal take place between me and the other person?" for this we need an aspect.

Observe that Lord 1 Venus is applying to Mars Lord 7, but it will not catch Mars before it leaves its current sign. This is an indication that you will not be able to catch the deal if you go there at the time suggested.

The bread would certainly be ruled by Lord 8, their products, posessions, etc. Very fitting that it is Jupiter in Sagittarius, the product is good and genuine. Bread would fit Jupiter and certainly such a large offer.

A testimony of obtaining the bread is that Lord 2 Mercury (your possessions) is applying a close sextile to Jupiter Lord 8, showing their bread coming into your posession. This shows that the opportunity is there, we just have to fix the situation with Lord 1 being too slow..too late we can say.

But as Pam aptly pointed with regard to the condition of Venus nearly stationary and in the 4th did clearly reflect your tentativenes to take action. This occurs even though you are in a cardinal house and in the triplicity of Jupiter, showing some motivation to obtain the bread.

Mercury here (your posessions) is in Libra, but in the 6th and under the control of you, Venus. In essence your pocket cannot do anything you are not telling it to do, so if you are staying home, this aspect Mercury is making will not mean very much.

Additionally, the Sun Lord 4 is squaring Lord 7. The Sun represents your home, this could be interprettede once again as your staying home afflicts the potential of the deal to come to fruition. On another level, the Sun could actually represent the other people who are going to get their first.

With regard to the various comments on the late degree rising, this does not at all affect the validity of the chart. It is merely descriptive. Here you stated that you intended to go 30 minutes before the store opened, and observe that the ascendant is just about 30 minutes from changing it's sign. This simply reflects the situation as it is right now, your intentions etc. It is also a strong indication that your chosen time may be too late. Probably not by much, but too late regardless. But making this kind of a judgment doesn't mean that the chart cannot be read. As we clearly see how Lord 1 reflects you as you described..tentative to act..

Asc. is also Conj. Alcylone, a fixed star relate to sorrow and not seeing things clearly. This can also be indicative of not seeing the timing issue clearly.

My suggestion though is that in a situation like this, much like Pam suggested to you, that you give it a shot regardless, for in this way you can test out all of the theories..Be your own scientist and guinea pig for your Horary experiments. I can tell you how many times if I was uncertain with a judgment I would go ahead and do the thing asked about, so that I could be all the wiser when I saw how it actually panned out. It is an important part of the learning process. But again, this Lord 1 positioning ended up having a great deal of significance in how this all turned out.

Take care,

Yasha

spirlhelix wrote:

I thought to myself, "I may be moving soon," "could I really stand eating bread from the same place for a year," "I'm not that poor", and so on, you know, important life or death matters (just joking)! But perhaps the real reason I didn't go was that I wanted support from all of you, although my hunch was I would have gotten it. Oh well, perhaps another time.

Hi, Peter

And the reason I did not finally post my judgment on this chart was that I felt doubtful of your nearly-stationary Venus in the fourth house. I did see early on that the chart could be saying, "yes", using the fifth house of gaming/chance to see if you could win the "prize" of free bread. I don't consider this form of payout as an ordinary monetary transaction, as would be found in the seventh house. Mercury was Lord of the fifth of gaming and dispositor of the Part of Fortune in the first house, your "treasure" within your grasp. Mercury also ruled your second house of food. Moon was moving to conjunct Mercury in less than three cardinal degrees.

But I stopped shy of giving a positive judgment because, in addition to the late degrees, Venus was virtually stationary in the fourth house. Someone who does not want to stir himself from his comfort, in his home. . .barely moving.

Peter, you know perfectly well you would have various positive and negative predictions posting on a list like this one. There are various techniques here, various skill levels. . . and we don't hesitate to post differing predictions. If you ever ask a horary question and then fail to follow up because enough astrologers have not given you a positive prediction, it is down to you if you do not acheive the prize you desired. Don't blame it on the astrologer, who is likely to take you to task for it (Mars in Gemini giving you a browbeating in your first house).

Regards,

Pam

Peter,Yasha,Pam,

It is very easy to be wise in hindsight - L 1 Venus in 4th on stationary Direct degree - Peter suggests in his first post 'I may be lazy' - this brought about ' the end of the matter'?

Julie K

Hi, Julie

Yes, I wouldn't have traded what I learned from this chart for gold! Smile.
Another "fate vs. freewill" conundrum . . . fascinating.

Regards,

Pam

Pam,

I totally agree with you. It was a good trip for me too.

Julie K

Hi again,

Well, I was just in the bread store the other day and I decided to ask an employee if there were 100 people there at the store the first morning for the free bread for a year. The employee of the store told me that apparently there we many people already camped out at seven p.m. the night before! And at five a.m., when the bakers come in to bake the bread, there was apparently a line that stretched fairly far, I would guess at least a couple hundred feet, though I'm bad at math. Now that is not good sign that my arrival at 8:30 a.m. ( a half hour before opening) would have been a success.
Anyhow, I thought you may find my discovery interesting, for, although I did not test it out, if we trust what the employee told me, then the chart should show the outcome of what would have happened. 100 people is really not that many, and if there were already several at 7 the night before, the chances of me making it were slim, although if I happen to go in there another day I will ask more specifically the manager if I would have made it, or if they had to turn many people away.
In any case, perhaps the novices of horary (like me) can learn from this chart, for horary is supposed to be pretty black and white, and in this case, it seems that the answer to my question was a straight "no", although I definitely did not see it, for I really liked my co-significator's (the moon) closely applying sextile with the business' significator (Jupiter). I guess I have a lot more to learn, but I just thought I'd let you know of the most likely outcome.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your post on the outcome. Appreciated. Sound like it may have turned into a regular bun fight!

Julie K

In any case, perhaps the novices of horary (like me)

Never fear, Peter. If you have the tenacity to follow up on your chart outcomes, you will learn horary astrology double-quick. I like the clarity of the questions you ask. You have a lot of potential; it's good to see you investing it! Smile.

Warmest regards,

Pam

Hello Peter,

What you did was excellent! If we can, always, it is prudent to learning to follow up in person such as you did.

Indeed if people were camping out we can rest rather assured that 100 people would have arrived before you.

The main thing that did it for me was the Lord 1 was not able to contact Lord 7 before Mars would leave it's sign. Also that the Asc was so late was probably a strong indication that the time picked was too late. But most important that Lord 1 and 7 did not connect. In those kind of question it is best in my opinion to treat it as a "will we do the deal?" sort of a question.

Thanks again for posting the follow up. It was a good Horary.

Best,

Yasha