Here we go again. Wigan have just scored an own goal for Bolton

And as for Arsenal....

I have one with PoS(n) 3GE57 opposition dispositor Mercury 3SG58
In this chart the favourites won (home team) but it could be because the aspect to dispositor is confirmative? [This chart showed PoF(n) 12LI17*Sun]

Applying aspects only, I think! and Mercury is just past that opposition.

Barely in time, but I think West Ham is going to win (if the starting time my bookie gives is correct: 15.55 GMT. Seems odd)
Underdog to win or maybe a draw. Draws are slippery.
Moon opp.Fortuna;
Moon conj. L4

Conjunctions of the Moon are final, John writes, so no need to look further

AstonVilla-Reading 1-3 Odds 3,1:1
Reading-Liverpool 3-1 Odds 5,25:1
Middlesborough-Arsenal 2-1 Odds 7:1

Total odds 121:1 ??

?100 in this direction would have given ?12.100,- return!!

What on Earth happened? Are we playing with buttons next week?
And I was even playing with the idea of going opposite everything.



Sorry, LaurieB - Mercury was 3SG40 and not past the opposition.

I wonder whether some of the weekends hiccups have something to do with the configuration in Sagittarius? Combust Mercury, waning Moon and dispositur Jupiter both under the Sun's beams. The Moon applies to the body of the delibiated Mercury - and Mercury corrupts the Moon? Combust planets hide information. Jupiter and Mercury in one sign - an opening of gates?

In my opinion the 'sports and speculation' group is a research team. I think the team is working well but we have to come up with something decisive. There are a lot of skilled astrologers among us - and while we don't mind popping a bob for the odd bit of fun, an astrology of fairytails is not what any of us identify ourselves with.

My head is in jumble and I need to make some sense. Who is the ascendant - the home team or the favourite? Who is the descendant - the away team or the underdog? How does the home team get to become the underdog and the descendant - and the away team becomes the ascendant? How can we tell? As astrologers we assume our art to work all the time, so half the time would certainly not be good enough for me. Obviously something is missing. Personally, I feel more certain on passing judgement upon a horary chart when this does arise - rather than using the event chart. However, I think we should keep digging and it could be that we are on to a few clues. Here I have attempted to explore Frawley's lead on Fortuna.

So far I have prepared eight charts that didn't work out as I anticipated and then taken a new look at them in view of the diurnal Part of Fortune or nocturnal Part of Spirit. It's not possible to draw conclusions of eight charts alone, but we might pass comment and see if this leads to new understanding. Notice that the charts indicate the odds prior to the games starting.

1) Dec 1. Premier League: AstonVilla-Arsenal 1-2
http://www.astronor.com/071201Villa.gif
PoS(n) [Part of Spirit, nocturnal] closest aspect is trine Mercury
The favourites get it!

2) Dec 3. European Championship Curling: Switzerland-Sweden 6-3
http://www.astronor.com/071203Curl.gif
PoF(d) [Part of Fortune, diurnal] closest aspect is square Pluto
The underdogs get it!

3) Dec 3. World Championship Handball: Angola-Austria 33-22
http://www.astronor.com/071203Lyon.gif
PoS(n) opposite her dispositor, Mercury. The dispositor does the works!
The favourites get it!

4) Dec 4. Champions League: Shakhtar B - Benefica 1-2
http://www.astronor.com/071204Shakhtar.gif
PoS(n) is closest conjunct Mars, an infortune, then * Saturn through signs of long ascension [works like a square]
The underdogs get it!

5) Dec 5. Champions League: Rome - Cagliari 2-0
http://www.astronor.com/071205Rome.gif
PoS(n) is square Uranus through signs of short ascension [works like a sextile]
The favourites get it!

6) Dec 5. Champions League: Basel - Brann 1-0
http://www.astronor.com/071205Basel.gif
PoS(n) is opposite Jupiter. The fortune works the opposition.
The favourites get it!

7) Dec 5. Premier League: Newcastle - Arsenal 1-1
http://www.astronor.com/071205Newcastle.gif
PoS(n) is trine Neptune through signs of short ascension [works like a square]
Neptune leads to nothing and hence the draw?

8 ) Dec 7. Premier League: Brighton - Nottingham Forrest 0-2
http://www.astronor.com/071207Brighton.gif
PoS(n) is trine Uranus
The favourites get it!

Anyone wish to comment?

Champions league
Rome - Manchester United Dec. 12. 19.45 GMT
Odds: 1,90 3,40 4,00

PoS(n) is 12VI05 opposite Uranus
It appears ManU are underdogs!!
Saturn is L7 and not far from PoS(n), but the opposition to Uranus comes first.

My head is in jumble and I need to make some sense. Who is the ascendant - the home team or the favourite? Who is the descendant - the away team or the underdog?

Because favorite on ASC does not make sense to me I use my colour method (upon sport kit's colour) to determine "who is who". Why? Because, from natal astrology we know that ASC (or DSC for another team) is all about apperance, first impresion that we get from others. When two teams appear on playground we usually said "our team is white and our "enemy" is black! That is my approach. Than I use Frawley's rules except whenever he said "favours favorite" I said "favours ASC team".

Who is the ascendant - the home team or the favourite?

Well, Andrew, you certainly know how to keep us busy

I experimented a long time. Both with Favourites get the first and hometeams get the first. In the end I decided that favourites are the first is correct in the majority of cases. I am most confortable when favourites and home team are the same, though.

As astrologers we assume our art to work all the time, so half the time would certainly not be good enough for me.

I don't assume that. Nothing is perfect, we are not perfect and astrology is not perfect either. It is already a miracle that we get so much right! Getting everything right would only make us "walk along our shoes"(as we say in Holland), Hubris! We are after all, only human.

1) Dec 1. Premier League: AstonVilla-Arsenal 1-2
http://www.astronor.com/071201Villa.gif
PoS(n) [Part of Spirit, nocturnal] closest aspect is trine Mercury
The favourites get it!

No Moon aspects. Nothing, so either a draw or the favourites win.
Hard to judge, those charts.

2) Dec 3. European Championship Curling: Switzerland-Sweden 6-3
http://www.astronor.com/071203Curl.gif
PoF(d) [Part of Fortune, diurnal] closest aspect is square Pluto
The underdogs get it!

The only testimony for the favourites is L1 just before c7. That only works if the game started on time. Did it?
No Moon-aspects. Charts are hard to judge then. Usually a draw (no option here) or the favourites win.
I wonder if Pluto did his malice to the favourites again, with L7 conj Pluto. But there is no connection to Asc or MC, so I doubt that is the answer.
I simply don't know.


3

) Dec 3. World Championship Handball: Angola-Austria 33-22
http://www.astronor.com/071203Lyon.gif
PoS(n) opposite her dispositor, Mercury. The dispositor does the works!
The favourites get it!

Absolutely no explanation for tis one. This is really a mystery.
Disp.Fortuna appl. opp. Fortuna should have favoured the underdog. I don't know how strong that testimony is, though. Apparently not strong enough.
AntL7 just before MC should also have given victory to the underdog, but if the game started a little late that doesn't work.
No Moon aspects, so could also have been a draw, or the favourites winning, as they did, but that would completely ignore the aspect between fortina and it's dispositor. Odd!

4) Dec 4. Champions League: Shakhtar B - Benefica 1-2
http://www.astronor.com/071204Shakhtar.gif
PoS(n) is closest conjunct Mars, an infortune, then * Saturn through signs of long ascension [works like a square]
The underdogs get it!

Lord4 conj. AntFortuna, a little wide, but nevertheless....

5) Dec 5. Champions League: Rome - Cagliari 2-0
http://www.astronor.com/071205Rome.gif
PoS(n) is square Uranus through signs of short ascension [works like a sextile]
The favourites get it!

L10 conj. AntFortuna. The favourites should get it! Nothing strange about that!

6

) Dec 5. Champions League: Basel - Brann 1-0
http://www.astronor.com/071205Basel.gif
PoS(n) is opposite Jupiter. The fortune works the opposition.
The favourites get it!

No Moon aspects. Large difference in odds, so favourites winning is not impossible, or completely unexpected.

7) Dec 5. Premier League: Newcastle - Arsenal 1-1
http://www.astronor.com/071205Newcastle.gif
PoS(n) is trine Neptune through signs of short ascension [works like a square]
Neptune leads to nothing and hence the draw?

No explanantion on my part. It should have been the favourites (AntL10 conj. Fort.) But when there are no Moon aspects, I often see a draw (not always, depends on the odds, I think. When the odds differ more it is often the favourites winning).

8 ) Dec 7. Premier League: Brighton - Nottingham Forrest 0-2
http://www.astronor.com/071207Brighton.gif
PoS(n) is trine Uranus
The favourites get it!

But who are the favourites? I don't trust odds that are so close. Normally I don't even look at charts like this.
Underdogs should have had it. Maybe they did and the odds were a little bit off. Even odd-makers aren't perfect!

In a perfect world, the favourites would always win. That is what ought to happen, so usually there is very little evidence for that. It needs very strong evidence for the underdog to win, because it is almost "contary to nature".

6 out of these 8 charts had no Moon-aspects at all. One had only a weak one, normally ignored and only the Shaktar Donetsk chart had an abundance of them.
So it confirms my feeling: charts with no moon aspects are hard to judge.
I try to limit myself to putting money on only those games that show good clear evidence, otherwise I lose too much money.

In the end it all comes down to weighing. Weighing the evidence to see if it is strong enough to upset the balance or not. If the balance if heavily in favour of the favourites it takes a lot to upset that balance. But if the favourites are only a little bit stronger, it doesn't need that much to upset that balance. That is where the technique stops and the art comes in.
I don't think we will ever get it 100% right, but it is a joy to try!

Well done, Laurie, for calling the West Ham win Finally an away team won! I think yesterday's EPL games illustrate the point you made about a single testimony not being sufficient for the underdogs to win when they are the away team. West Ham had two testimonies; Wigan and Man City only had one. I'd have thought that might have been sufficient for a draw perhaps, but apparently not, probably because they were relatively minor testimonies.

On the other hand there was only one testimony for Middlesbro, who were also underdogs but were at home! This only makes sense of course if you give the Asc to the home team or the "red" team (using colour method). Also this particular testimony, Mars (L1) conj 4th (cadent side), was very strong. Bodily emplacement ranks above antiscion emplacement and Moon's aspects.

4) Dec 4. Champions League: Shakhtar B - Benefica 1-2
http://www.astronor.com/071204Shakhtar.gif
PoS(n) is closest conjunct Mars, an infortune, then * Saturn through signs of long ascension [works like a square]
The underdogs get it!

We did a post mortem on this game at the time - see page 4. There were two Moon aspects favouring Benfica.

6) Dec 5. Champions League: Basel - Brann 1-0
http://www.astronor.com/071205Basel.gif
PoS(n) is opposite Jupiter. The fortune works the opposition.
The favourites get it!

Antiscion Saturn (L7) just inside 10th, which I pointed out before the game - see page 4 again.

Quote:
8 ) Dec 7. Premier League: Brighton - Nottingham Forrest 0-2
http://www.astronor.com/071207Brighton.gif
PoS(n) is trine Uranus
The favourites get it!

Laurie said:
But who are the favourites? I don't trust odds that are so close. Normally I don't even look at charts like this.

Makes perfect sense if you give Asc to home team - see page 6 for pre-match analysis.

So Andrew, you have three different viewpoints here because I give the home team the Asc As I've said so many times before, every method is valid and none works 100%. We all go on our own experience and use the method we have found to work best and which we feel most comfortable with.

Best of all is when favourite, home team and colour all coincide

Looking at tomorrow's Champion's League games:
Odd charts
All 6 games tomorrow show no aspects of the Moon;
all 8 games wednesday show a VOC Moon
Feels like very tight games with extreme results, either big scoring or nothing happening. Difficult to predict!

For some teams it is the last opportunity to go on to the next round, so they are bound to take risks. All or nothing.

Tomorrow's games:
Porto-Besiktas: Absolutely nothing happens in the chart; considering the odds I will go for the favourites.

Chelsea-Valencia: no moon aspects, but interesting looking Fortuna conj SNode and Pluto trine AntFortuna. If they have an effect, and that is a BIG if; there is not an automatic win for Chelsea; it may be a draw. I don't think it will be strong enough for Valncia to win, though.

Olympiques M.-Liverpool: again no Moon aspects and again the mysterious Fortuna conj SNode and Pluto trine AFortuna. Another draw?

Schalke 04-Rosenborg: L7 conj.Fortuna, no Moon aspects. I will go for the underdog, which makes me happy, as I have a soft spot for Rosenborg

O.Piraeus-Werder Bremen: another one of those Fortuna conj.SNode and Pluto trine AntFortuna games. This time there is Ant Fortuna in 10. A little bit too far in, but if the game were to start a little late.... In that case I would go for the favourites.

Real Madrid-Lazio: L1 conj.Pluto, L4 opp. AntFortuna; L7 trine AntFortuna, L10 sextile AntFortuna. No Moon aspects. Bit of a mix, here. The only applying aspect is the opposition with L4, so no win for the underdogs. probably no win for the favourites either. Draw?

Any comments?
Did I miss anything?
Wednesday's games I will look at tomorrow.

Olympiques M.-Liverpool: again no Moon aspects and again the mysterious Fortuna conj SNode and Pluto trine AFortuna. Another draw?

What about ant Saturn (L7) conj MC (cadent side)? I'm hoping this will be enough for odds-on faves Liverpool, even though they are away team.

Schalke 04-Rosenborg: L7 conj.Fortuna, no Moon aspects. I will go for the underdog, which makes me happy, as I have a soft spot for Rosenborg

You would count that conj, even though it's separating? I thought ant PoF conj MC would indicate a win for Schalke, odds-on at home.