Pam, please accept my sincere condolences on the passing of your mother.

As for the other marks, except for the first one you mentioned before, I have no other, none on the throat, scalp or the navel. (so just that one below the navel and to the left).

Hi, Lee lu

Thanks for responding to my previous post. Interesting that none of the other marks showed up. I hope you don't mind if I add a little to the discussion of your chart; perhaps we can find out more about what those places (or some of them) mean to the condition of your health at the moment of decumbiture.

First, I will say that Saturn in your chart is square the ascendant. Saunders takes this as an indication that Saturn is a major cause of trouble in your illness (semen morbificum). Saturn in the midst of the tenth house indicates a structural problem or hardness, posited in the exact location of the reins (ureters/kidneys) ) according to Saunders mapping of the body on the chart.

Next, I find it of interest that Jupiter is in Sagittarius on the cusp of the
thrid house. Saunders always looks for planets on cusps for indications of places affected by illness on the chart. The cusp of the third house would indicate the area just above the collarbone. This might suggest an overactive thyroid or perhaps parathyroids. The function of the parathyroid glands is to regulate calcium within the body. Those with overactive parathyroids frequently develop kidneystones, so it might be worthwhile to inquire about this condition.

The Sun is within five degrees of the cusp of the eighth house, so he also plays a part in the areas of the body affected by the illness.
I am being called away, so I will give you a little more time to digest the material above before I discuss the significance of the Sun oh the chart.


Well wishes,

Pam

Thanks Pam, although Saturn is, I believe, in sextile aspect to the Asc? Being in the 10th house might indicate a therapy that should be applied, one that is related to Saturn maybe? (but I don't know which methods would be Saturnine).
Jupiter's position, as you mentioned could very well be related to my thyroid problem although it was about 12 years ago (Jupiter cycle?), it was underactive (hypothyroidism), but the problem quickly resolved by itself in about 3 months.
I am also very interested in Sun and Moon in 8th, and on Algol, it looks lifethreatening but it was just an episode, all medical results were OK after the attack (and after the stone was out)...

Regards

Hi, Li Lu

Ascendant in Libra, Saturn in Leo. . .a sextile, not a square. Guess who must not have been concentrating on the chart! Sorry about the confusion.

The condition which contributes to kidneystones is hyperparathyoidism, not hypothyroidism. So it still might be something to think about. Endocrine glands are in a constant state of flux, so glands that were underactive 12 years ago could easily become overactive years later. One of the reasons these condtions are so hard to diagnose using modern-day methods is because our tests show a "snapshot" of a hormone level that constantly swings like a pendulum between highs and lows.

Also, were you aware of taking any medications prior to your attack which might have contributed to the development or expulsion of kidney stones? The chart says that this illness was caused by a medication you were taking which may in turn have led to the incident. Saunders says that illnesses with the Lady (in this case) of the ascendant in the ninth house are caused by medications the querent is taking.

Venus representing the medication might suggest antidepressants, diuretics, or birth control hormones. Venus ruled by Cancer shows a medication emphasizing the expulsive virtue. Diuretics or birth control would be fitting here.

I will be getting back to you regarding Sun on the chart!

Well wishes,

Pam

Thanks Pam, but no medications, no vitamins, none at all! The only thing I added to my life routine was Pilates exercising, started couple of months prior the attack... that of course could not be the cause but could have helped expel / move the stone? (lady of the Asc separating from square to Mars)

regards

L.

Hi, Lee Lu!

Thanks again for the feedback! If we consider Pilates to be a "treatment" of sorts, one intended to optimize health and beauty (Venus), then we might interpret the chart to be saying the Pilates contributed to the expulsion of the stone.

Moon has most recently separated from Venus, so Saunders would have said that the illness was brought on by some sort of "surfeit". In most cases, that would mean overeating or overindulging, but with the therapeutic intention of Venus in your chart, perhaps over-doing the excercise routine is the "surfeit" described.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the Moon's next aspect is a square to Saturn, so the indications of Saturn as "semen morbificum"--the seed of disease--still apply. Saunders counts any planets square the Ascendant, or square or opposed the Lord of the Ascendant, or Square or opposed the Moon. I am quoting this by memory without looking at his book, which I am for the moment unable to acess in my transitional state.

More soon, I hope!

Well wishes,

Pam

Hi, Lee Lu!

Oh, I forgot to remark on your interpretation of Venus separating from a square to Mars--Good point! Mars is another Semen Morbificum suggesting infection, while Saturn says obstruction. A very painful combination. Sun in the area of the chart which shows the "secrets", adds inflammation, (making the expulsion of the stone more difficult than ever) while the influence of the Moon (Sun and Moon in Taurus where the expulsive virtue is strong) show building pressure to expel the stone. Oww! You must have had a rough time.

Hats off to you, lady. You're a survivor!

Well wishes as ever,

Pam

Hi, Lee Lu!

I promised to go into the role of the Sun on this chart. As we mentioned before, Sun is just adjoining the cusp of the eighth house, a position which Saunders ascribes to "the secrets". Inflammation (Sun) in this area of the body is certainly understandable in a patient with kidney stones.

Any planet squaring or opposing the Sun is a Semen Morbificum, just as for the Lord of the Ascendant and the Moon.

The Sun is of special importance to the decumbiture chart because he represents the vital spirits of the patient. He is not in especially good dignity in Taurus, indicating that the querent's energies are low.

This brings us back to Saturn, which is squared both by the Moon and the Sun. Saturn is impeding both the quantity and quality of vital spritis (Sun), and their distribution through the body (Moon). Saturn in Leo is also under rulership of the Sun, in a position which shows an abundance of choler in the area of the reins. Choler, by element, is "fire", which to my mind describes the sort of chemical reaction which derives from the exchange of electrolytes (potassium, sodium and most notably in this instance, __calcium__), the sort of chemical reaction which would over time and in the right circumstances lead to the production of stones (composed of calcium), represented by Saturn, the ultimate melancholic (earth) planet.

All these indications on the chart are quite clear, and their reflection of your personal experience, as you noted, is remarkably accurate.

Yet--Sun is also combusting the Moon in this chart. Since Moon is applying to the Sun, this is a New Moon chart. This suggests to me there may be hidden aspects to this illness, just as the Moon (the course of the illness) is hidden as she nears the Sun.

I have found Saunders' clue of looking at the cusps of the chart to be most helpful in finding hidden conditions. But this is why I must work with carefully validated charts. Cusps are only as reliable as the accuracy of the time the chart was taken.

There are only two planets on this chart that fall within five degrees of cusps. One is the Sun, which shows the location of the "secrets", according to Saunders.

The other is Jupiter, showing a position just above the collarbone, in the throat. Jupiter in the throat (in Sagittarius) is in a dignity enhancing the role, again, of choler, just as are the kidneys.

Using another form of body "mapping" on the chart (there are several, naturally!), Sun and Moon, both in Taurus, also indicators of the illness,
are both in Taurus, indicating the throat. Sun on Algol does not necessarily equate to mortality, of course, as you noted. Venus, significator of your disease, rules Taurus (throat) just as she does Libra (kidneys).

Four significators are pointing to your throat. Three would be enough to persuade me there was something worth following up on.

Our senses tell us about our body and our illness. Our physicians tell us about our experience of illness on another level altogether. What fascinates me is that the stars can tell us things that our bodies and our physicians may not (yet) know. This information does not need to supplant what our doctors are telling us, but if we are interested, it can provide a supplementary source for further investigation.

I wonder if your doctors have ever explained to you why a woman in her mid-thirties would develop kidney stones, when this is an illness most often experienced by women in their fifties? Have they ever said what they think led to this condition in a young woman?

Thanks for all your patience with the discussion of the chart thus far.

Well wishes!

Pam

Pam, all the thanks go to you for all your time and effort!
Yes, it was a terrible experience (and extremely surprising since I never had a kidney problem before), and it took me 3 days to expel that stone. Even under heavy dose of morphine in the hospital I could still feel the pain. After that all the results were good and no, nobody explained to me what caused the formation of the stone, but the stone itself was typical, calcium based. The only thing the doctors said is that it doesn't depend on age and that it's not unusual even for younger people to suffer from it. The doctors also performed the CT scan and they didn't see any other stone, everything looked clear.
Thanks and all the best to you.

Hi, Lee Lu

Yes, your chart was quite interesting. As usual, a lot of good information in the chart. If you happen to have problems with kidney stones again (thank goodness the chart ascendant and the cusp of the twelfth are in a cardinal sign, so I imagine not), then you can keep in mind what the chart says about the region of the throat. Specifically, with the Moon where it is in Taurus, you might keep in mind the left upper parathyoid gland.

Glandular imbalances can come and go all by themselves, so in your shoes I would not be anxious to fix something that isn't broken.
Luckily, nothing on the chart suggests a chronic condition.

Here is a good article I found online that describes kidney stones and their causes:

http://www.medicinenet.com/kidney_stone/article.htm

Both overexercise and hyperparathyroidism are named as contributors.

Best well wishes!

Pam

Pam, thanks for the link and I will definitely keep in mind the throat area, maybe my thyroid is lazy again or something. Funny thing also is that organs affected in my case are ruled by Venus, and this decumbiture chart is also ruled by Venus, and in my natal chart Venus is the most dignified and well aspected planet in the chart!?
Lazy Venus? Certainly, this kidney attack and the hypothyroidism from 12 years ago are warning signs what my weak health points are...

Regards