I'm just posting to enquire if any Skyscript member either has or knows someone who has an extensive set of back issues of 'Correlation' that they would be willing to sell to a good home.

I was informed by someone in the A.A. office last Autumn in response to my suggestion of back-issues being reprinted as bound volumes for the benefit of future research that the query would be forwarded to Pat Harris (from whom I have not yet received a reply) but that the A.A. itself does not even have archived copies of all the earlier issues of Correlation.

I have a friend near London who is a very serious collector of astrological journals and has complete runs of virtually all those published in the UK in the past century and a bit; in theory, no doubt, he could supply a full set of source material for a reprint if negotiations with the A.A. over rights were to prove favourable. But in the meantime, I would much rather have my own set to refer to.

I doubt I am alone in seeking copies of this journal, and naturally I'd be willing to pay a fair price or bid at auction for a complete or extensive set.

The same goes for Les Cahiers des RAMS, though I suspect that is scarcer still.

Philip

Hi Philip,

you've probably seen the article about the history of Correlation in Rudolf H. Smit's site Astrology and Science http://www.rudolfhsmit.nl/d-vest2.htm . According to that article there may be a somewhat strained relationship between AA and the earlier Correlation issues. Of course this article represents only one point of view, but it's still interesting.

Sari

Yes, thank you, Sari, I had seen that particular article a year or two ago.

While I can understand that the history of the magazine has not been without its internal conflicts, I nonetheless strongly feel that any lingering ill-feelings stemming from political differences of opinion should be cast aside and the back-issues reprinted for the purposes of giving those who would wish to do astrological research but were too young or otherwise at too early a stage of astrological learning at the time Correlation began (for instance, I was six in January 1981, and had an entirely astrologically-uninformed childhood in a non-astrologically-aware family; it was not until I was 21 that I properly discovered astrology - in 1995, and then I was a poor student with barely the funds for a handful of books on the subject, let alone able to afford to subscribe to journals of whose existence I was only just beginning to become aware) the opportunity to undertake research in the full light of all that has gone before.

It would be absolutely tragic and a terrible waste of educational opportunity in my opinion for the past contents of Correlation to remain unavailable to successive generations of astrologers having interest in astrological research unless they live within easy travel distance of one of the very few libraries that have copies.

I have absolutely no doubt that A.A. and the present editor of Correlation have the best interests of astrology at heart, but the fact that they have come under fire from some sceptical quarters over the handling of Geoffrey Dean's correspondence to the journal for example is absolutely no reason in my opinion for them to seek to bury the journal's past under a carpet at the expense of all the informative reports on studies in the early issues being made available to a new generation.

So far I have no direct reason to believe that any fears of the reputations of the Astrological Association, Correlation, its current editor, and / or astrology in general being adversely affected by the reprinting of back-numbers are even an issue where the A.A. or Pat Harris herself is concerned.

The A.A. told me simply, quite factually, that some of the early issues have been lost from their archives so they do not have the facility to provide source material for complete past runs. Since my friend near London (among other sources, no doubt) has a complete past run, the availability of a complete set of source material for reprinting should not ultimately be a problem.

I'd prefer for the moment to retain an open mind about where this may be heading!

And my personal opinion is that, far from the reprinting of back-issues posing any threat to the A.A., Correlation or astrology in general, it would enhance the reputations of the A.A. and Correlation by showing their willing to be factually open with their past history and to extend the exposure of the ideas, debates and research published in those past times to new generations of astrological researchers.

In fact, further than that, I even think that a number of sceptics who formerly participated in or have been closely associated with former participants in Correlation are currently succeeding (however wrongly) in casting public aspersions to the effect that the A.A. has sold out on Correlation's original intentions, that the studies in Correlation up to and including Smit's time as editor had invariably negative results, and therefore that ANY astrological research study is doomed to failure.

By failing to facilitate the furtherance of access to the original issues of Correlation if offered the opportunity to do so without itself having to undertake any up-front financial risk from printing, the A.A. would be playing into the hands of the sceptics who would have us believe that it has deliberately covered up the supposed failures reported in the early issues of Correlation and that any and all scientific statistical studies would be likewise doomed to failure.

Analysis of the failures and any weakness in their experimental designs is part of the road towards successes in this field of research.

New researchers heading blindly into the field without the benefit of detailed knowledge of past failures and consideration of the reasons for their failure are much more likely to fail also, thereby solidifying the strength of the sceptics' position to disseminate anti-astrological propaganda.

Best wishes,

Philip

in reply to your query, there are no back issues available for some issues of Correlation (these go back beyond my time). Photocopied papers from these issues can be supplied - see RGCSA database (www.astrology-research.net).

It may be possible to pdf existing archive sets. I have copies of all issues going back to 1980, I believe (a colleague has leant me some issues on a long term loan arrangement for reference and to abstract papers onto the RGCSA database site).

The possibility of making pdf versions of old issues available to subscribing journal members is being discussed but nothing has been decided regarding all old issues being made available on the net, yet.

I am looking into this with the AA and will come back with any news on developments.

Being new to this, I sent my reply off before fully identifying myself! PatH is Pat Harris, Editor of Correlation since 1999.

The inaccessiblity of earlier journal issues, as you will have noted from my previous email is simply a matter of administration.

We are working on it!

Best wishes,

Pat.

History is sometimes very simple. The AA got rid of huge numbers of Correlations a few years ago fof the simple reason that nobody wanted them! There were boxes of most issues and, quite simply, the storage problems were severe and the demand non-existent. I personally went through them, kept 5 archive issues of each and sent the rest for recycling. The archive copies were kept in the AA Office, but are now in storage. I personally have a complete set going back to the original version which was published jointly with ISAR, and I think it is very important to make these available as PDFs.

Helo, Nick,

Yes, I completely agree. If you own the whole collection it should be possible for the AA to pdf them and make them available in this format if you are able to loan them out in order for the AA to arrange this.

Pat.
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Well, this is all excellent news. Thank you Dr. Harris for taking the time to respond so positively; and I'm sure the pdf version would be a very acceptable and affordable working substitute for reprints if placed in the hands of researchers, though equally I have absolutely no illusions about the amount of sheer tedious time and work it takes to produce scans of extensive runs of journals, and whoever takes this on will deserve a lot of credit!

I'd personally be delighted to subscribe to Correlation in the future once back issues are made available again - indeed, I can truthfully say that the accessibility of back issues in general is a key factor in determining my interest or otherwise in subscribing to any journal of a scientific nature that has already been in existence for some time, since to fully understand the contributions and issues of the present as they crop up in such a journal one needs to understand those that went before.

Nick, I'm sorry to learn that so many copies previously had to be thrown out, but it was admirable of you to rescue several sets for the archives. I believe it would be logical to suppose that demand for this kind of material from those who have not previously subscribed to Correlation, and who would thus represent the potential market for back-issues, must fluctuate somewhat randomly depending on the number of individuals new to the requisite level of interest in astrological research to be interested in the material at particular times, as well as their current economic priorities and limitations.

But the PDF solution proposed sounds to me an excellent idea for putting the past research conducted and announced through Correlation at the fingertips of a wider field of astrologers and astrological researchers who might otherwise have had difficulty justifying to themselves the the full cost of annual subscription to the A.A. and Correlation together with this one particular need in mind. I very much hope that the PDFs will be made purchasable by non-members of the A.A. who might nonetheless be very interested in astrological research too, for example those resident outside the UK who were primarily drawn to membership of other astrological associations based in their countries.

I also think that the Internet has very much internationalised the flow of publicity in relation to journals that were previously known chiefly by the members of the particular astrological organisations that begat them, and that this enhanced cross-country and cross-organisational awareness must have served to increase the potential global market for journals such as Correlation compared to previously.

Perhaps the electronic distribution of Correlation will eventually serve as a happy precedent to a similar effort on the past issues of Les Cahiers des RAMS. It strikes me that a lot of very interesting research is being conducted in France currently, and that even without Suzel Fuzeau-Braesch this will continue.

I would like to reiterate my strong belief that the ready availability of the past research to present researchers can only serve to strengthen the quality of research and spur on greater numbers to undertake it, these two effects combining to increase the likelihood and overall prevalence of useful results.

Whichever astrological sceptics have been heralding the death of statistical astrological research and the victory of science over astrology should be made aware that in the opinion of some astrologers the tip of the iceberg of astrological research possibilities worthy of investigation has barely been scratched, and that there are to this day astrologers who are not in the slightest bit intimidated by scientific scepticism but rather prepared to tackle it head-on on its own terms. Indeed, I believe that in the long run history is likely to show that, while not all astrologers will ever be personally interested in a scientific approach to the subject, and there will always be some who pay temporary interest to it then withdraw from lack of patience with seemingly disappointing early results from particular studies, the positive research results will gradually accumulate into a substantial body over the decades and centuries ahead.

Philip

Thank you, Phillip,

I will let you know the progress being made on the pdf approach.

In the meantime, I am glad to hear your comments about scientific research in astrology.

The RGCSA (Research Group for the Critical Study of Astrology) was created in 2001 and exists to encourage high standards of research in astrology in the social sciences by prviding grants to successful applicants in UK University education but will also consider supporting other UK university research areas where astrology forms part of the research proposal.

One of our major objectives is to counter the bank of inappropriate scientific research into astrology that now exists by encouraging researachers to produce very high quality, appropriately designed studies that are equipped to consider the particular aspect of astrology that is being researched. If inappropriate methods are used because the astrologer or the scientist does not fully understand how to tackle their own research question, no reliable conclusions can be drawn by either side, from any results that may emerge, whatever the results may be - negative or positive. We are strongly supported by very experienced academics both in the UK and overseas and can provide help, support and advice where needed.

The RGCSA site also carries a database of abstracts of over 200 papers on astrology from a number of different journals. These include abstracts of all papers of journal issues going back to 1980 on the site so anyone who is interested in finding abstracts of particular papers can locate them there. The service is free.

If you find a Correlation paper and the journal issue is not available to buy you can order a photocopy of the paper from the Astrological Associaiton for a small fee.

You can visit our site at www.astrology-research.net

Very best wishes,

Pat.
Deputy Convenor,
RGCSA
www.astrology-research.net
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I have to scan my back set but I'll ask for a little patience!

Yes, Nick,

These things can take a little time because of the actual physical process involved but well worth the patience exercised waiting for them, I think.

All good things come to he/she who waits! We'll all do our best, in the AA, to make sure the wait is only as long as absolutely necessary.

Pat.
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I also have a lot of stuff from the 80's, including Correlation. If there's anything you're looking for, pop by my place in Oslo anytime