Re: the Bad Thing.

Nothing I've written states or implies this.

?Debility? of Mars. I didn?t say anything about Mars being debilitated.

Regarding your example of Neptune and Mars, I still think it would be useful to know how the particular debility of Mars points you to inferring drugs, rather than say ill health, or weak constitution, or accident (Uranus?), or difficulties at birth (Pluto?). In the absemce of that I can only guess at your processes. Perhaps you consider these alternative connotations of mine astrologically incorrect or inappropriate?

I?d probably choose the word ?superfluous.? I look for Mars/Moon and Mars/Venus plus an angular house involvement for "heavy" drug taking..

You can always PM me if you think the PC thought-police might damage your professional reputation.

I don?t think I can, not that I?ve tried to ? hasn?t the PM facility been disabled?

The other problem with your example is that so many people take drugs, therapeuticallly and/or recreationally, and the definition of "drug" may be drawn in different ways to suit the context, that the Sceptic (yes, he, i'm afraid) might say you could hardly go wrong making the association with drugs.

Maybe?but you could say that about practically anything. We?re approaching the ?astrology must be wrong because it says there are only twelve types of people in the world? type of argument. (Often given by people who have no problem in dividing the population into extraverts and introverts, for some surreal reason.)

Fundamentally, my contention is that the outers are astrologically useful, and provide addition information to the traditional planets (and modi operandi). I would be interested to make the case for Pluto using your private data mentioned in your skyscript interview (anonymised, naturally), even though any results could be challenged by Sceptics (of dear, him again) on the grounds of statistical bias (self-selection).

You want to play with Pluto in my chart? Feel free.

Instead, consider the aspect of Jupiter conjoining Neptune, and the following characteristics I have observed from real life associated with it. Nothing in the list should be startling, as they are all entailed by the astrologically conventional meanings of these planets.

1. Cocktails as a hobby
2. Film buff
3. Loves the idea of academia
4. Musical tastes broad, but exclude rock; include "The Lark Ascending",
drunk-under-the-table-and-dreaming stuff
5. Cultivates a contemporary glamorous appearance
6. Socially idealistic in an ideational, aspirational way -
7. Preferred new age self-therapy: essential oils

My question to traditional aftrologers (sic): which of these can you infer by ignoring Neptune?

Give Venus back her glamour, her sensuality and her music. (2, 4, 5, 7).

Never looked for 3, most people want to know if they'd be any good at it, you mean as opposed to the reality? Ju/Ve with a weak Saturn, but that's an educated guess.

I don't know how you make a hobby from cocktails. If your hobby is drinking them in great volume, then a Mars/angles thing. Taste, Mars/Venus/Moon. But I can only guess at what a hobby in cocktails entails. Is this a common thing? Am I missing something here?

And I'm still waiting to see if Garry decides if he is the Garry P....

Kim
[/b]

I would be interested to make the case for Pluto using your private data mentioned in your skyscript interview (anonymised, naturally)

You want to play with Pluto in my chart?

I was referring to the 350 cases in your research on sex. Actually.

You did in fact say:

at the same time there's a debilitated Mars.

Are you now denying any connection between that and "debility" of Mars? If so, would better delineations be obtained from looking into crystal balls than chart wheels?

I can only guess at what a hobby in cocktails entails. Is this a common thing?

Making your own alcoholic beverages - I'd say so. There's beer, wine, moonshine, and cocktails themselves could be distinguished between the "baked beans" variety (G&T type) and the "gourmet" variety (lots of ingredients, shaking going on, umbrellas, etc - weird names, fascinating semiotics). Lots of fine distinctions here that depend only on the disposition of the planets.

which of these can you infer by ignoring Neptune?

Give Venus back her glamour, her sensuality and her music. (2, 4, 5, 7).

Not 2, 4, 5, 7, then.

I chose these examples because to me they show more specificity than can be inferred from Venus. Music=Venus, sure thing, but what type of music? And film=Venus is odd; film=Mercury (consumer end) and film=Jupiter (producer end) would be more consistent. Hobby=Jupiter. We musn't confuse figurativeness used to express ourselves nicely with the figurativeness involved in astrological delineation. The former is matter of taste, the latter not (or I am completely wasting my time discussing these things).

The last epiphany I had about Mars Neptune was at an AA conference in the late 80s psssbly early 90s. I can't believe St Nich is still at the helm gosh he must be dragging the zimmer frame by now or worse joined the real AA. Yes us goosed up Mars Neptunians partied til dawn every night and realized we all had (cough) mars neptune. I don't remember chocolate coming into the Bindu. Perhaps if it had we would have indulged in a bit of ol Shiri Yantra. Instead.. we were far too Goosed to be gitting frixky with the whisk-key. All I really remember learning on that conference was Lindsey saying 'I'm not wrong about the meaning of any of these planets they just might be a little off beam for you'

Perhaps we were too young to care that some Cambridge grad along with a Harvard along with a Milwalkee grad found out that chocolate contains phenylethylamine nor that it triggers production of Opiods. No wonder Liz Green resembled a marble surface - tripping gangster stylee. I'm trying to work out whether the owner of our renegade astrology book store at the time is masquerading as Coder . Come out you imposter I now figured out what you where doing with the chocolate rappings in the toilets - Beatnik. WE ALL had mars-neptune on the angles or was it on the rocks.

Oh yes rocks...Shaka Zulu born in 1782 and erm The Declaration of the United States 1776 and poor ol King George slowly getting arsniked to death. Woz Pluto in Capricorn fast forward a mooted 2000 solar returns on these dates years, well you do the math. Maybe Vulcan was always a higher octave of Pluto.

Signed
Fat Freddy




_________________________
Mr Black Mr White Dat na Rite - Mutabaruka

skippy, as an early connoisseur of gonzo journalism, I would be intrigued to read a delineation in the manner of gonzo astrology. Of course, it may not be too different from some of the things I read already, but do you want to give it a go anyway?

I was referring to the 350 cases in your research on sex. Actually.

Sorry, can't do that. In fact, given the tone that this thread has developed, I'm not doing anything here from now on.

Kim

From Noel Tyls web forum:

On August 24th, astronomers gathered at the IAU General Assembly in Prague will vote on the proposal, yea or nay. If it passes, the Solar System will have twelve planets: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Ceres, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Charon (a double planet) and 2003 UB313

That's one planet for each sign - SRCUM.

On August 24th astronomers gathered

August 24th? Now that's prediction....

August 24th? Now that's prediction....

A prediction when they're already gathered there?

Or selective editing of ...

On August 24th, astronomers gathered at the IAU General Assembly in Prague will vote on the proposal ...

This information has already been disseminated via press release, ie:

"The draft "Planet Definition" Resolution will be discussed and refined during the General Assembly and then it (plus four other Resolutions) will be presented for voting at the 2nd session of the GA 24 August between 14:00 and 17:30 CEST."

http://www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.iau.o ... lease.html

Be interesting to see predictions as to outcome for time-frame elected though.

With regard to Kurt Cobain all the seven of the septener are in watery signs. Plus Pluto and Uran on Asc, it's a remarkable chart.