Gem wrote:
Lilly says that the exaltation has greater fortitude than sign rulership in matters of competition & war.
Interesting Where does he say this?

Christian Astrology page 369, but I do not have a reference to Bonatus, or maybe I should call him Bonatti? Why do the British call Ptolemaios for Ptolemy?? Why the different names?

By the way, all the discovery charts of the outer planets have the sign assigned for the exaltation on the ascendant at the time they were discovered http://www.astronor.com/outerplanets.htm which in my mind spells that the ascendant is point in which the chart is in its natural exaltation and is the most potent point in the judgement of competitions.

Bonatus, or maybe I should call him Bonatti? Why do the British call Ptolemaios for Ptolemy?? Why the different names?

It used to annoy me when everyone suddenly started calling ?Bonatus? Bonatti so I asked the same question. I think it was Ben Dykes who explained that Bonatus is the Latin form of the name, and Bonatti is his native Italian spelling. I now generally use Bonatti, but only because it seems more graceful to write ?Bonatti?s work? than ?Bonatus? work?. I don't think it is more correct, it's just a matter of preferring one national spelling over another - like the way that the English name 'John' is equally correct when spelt 'Johanne' elsewhere.

Ptolemaeus is the Latin form of Ptolemy?s (Gk) name. Because he has the first name ?Claudius? historians generally conclude that he must have been a Roman citizen. With this in mind, here follows a rant.
The suggestion that the Greeks had all the influence in classical astrology whilst the Romans made no contribution really needs treating with suspicion. All we know is that the convention was to use Greek in written texts, in the same way that Latin was used as a standardised language in the medieval period. Assuming that all the astrologers who wrote in Greek were Greek in origin and culture would be a bit like claiming that a German professor who writes an academic article in English for a wider circulation is English ? which I don?t think would go down very well at all

West Ham 0 - 1 Portsmouth

I've no explanations for this result

Since I always look at all the Prem games, I thought it would be interesting to compare this one to the Chelsea game because the charts are exactly the same.

Moon VOC
Moon opp POF
Venus (L1) sextile ant POF
Moon trine ant Venus

Yes, you are right, chart exact the same but opose result! Maybe because of ASC in Via Combust way? I do not know too.

Ficinia said:
West Ham 0 - 1 Portsmouth
I've no explanations for this result

There is a lot of distortion with all the other games being played at the same time, isn't there? Were Portsmouth the favourites? They seem to be in a trimmed position at the moment, being ready for the FA Cup final. Is a 2-0 home win for Chelsea and a 0-1 away win for Portsmouth comparable? I often find myself dwelling on this question. It would seem that the game was judged according to who was favourite and not Asc.-Des. as in home team and guests.

There is a lot of distortion with all the other games being played at the same time, isn't there?

Yes, I absolutely agree and maybe we shouldn't draw any astrological conclusions unless the games are one-offs.

Were Portsmouth the favourites?

As I said above, West Ham were marginal faves (whereas Chelsea were strong odds-on faves - so that would make a difference).

It would seem that the game was judged according to who was favourite and not Asc.-Des. as in home team and guests.

No, I gave West Ham the Asc as home team (and I think Gem did the same) plus the fact they were faves, albeit marginal. I wasn't sure about colours. Moon/POF testimonies are a judgement on how the faves will fare, regardless of whether they are Asc or Desc.

WestHam-Portsmouth
Odds: 2.20 3.25 3.20

Yes, you are right - WestHam were favourites by odds.
But my guess would be that Portsmouth win the cup!
Is that a fair guess?? And a part of the puzzle?

W Ham 0 - Portsmouth 1
Chelsea 1 - Fenebache 0

Two identical charts and the opposite results. The only difference is the odds. W Ham marginal faves becuase they were playing at home and Chelsea, odds on faves. So the testimony Moon opp POF wasn't strong enough for F to beat Chelsea expecially becuase the chart was radical.

Christian Astrology page 369,

Andrew I'm feeling already very bad for having asked you for references(for the Sun being the ruler at dawn/dusk), so please don't feel pressurised to locate where

Lilly says that the exaltation has greater fortitude than sign rulership in matters of competition & war.

I'll repeat: I'm not asking you to locate this but I'd just like to point out that he doesn't say this on p369 nor in the surrounding pages.

Don't feel bad for asking me for references. Most of my stuff is well ordered, but with too many things going on at once I may get into a clutter. When something is not in order, it is simply a reminder to get back on the job. Champions League, UEFA Cup, FA Cup, the What-not Cup and League What-not... I'm not that heavy into football, but I do go to some pain to try and provide a correct over-all view of the match details..

If my book of references is in order, there is no problem in providing a quote. If I can't find the quote, then it should be something I have read by a credible author, but if I can't provide the quote then just take note of it out of curiousity, just like I did - I should have updated my quotes but children and family have been a priority. Lilly comment re exaltations on pg 369 of CA is under Chap LII: Who shall doe best in a Suit of Law:

He that is but meanly strong in the Figure, seems very fearfull; for sometimes he hopes to win, at othertimes to loose: and observe this in Questions, concerning Warres and Kingdomes, the Fortitude of a Planet is greater in his Exaltation than in his House, in all other Questions quite contrary.

This paragraf is subject to interpretation.

The reason I haven't written a book is because it is actually quite a lot of work for me to meet the standards of the English language. It's a perculiar situation really - I am bilingual, but my English is colored by my Norwegian and vice versa. In my family there are occasionally 3 languages running at the same time in addition to a various range of dialects. But please do tell me if I make a slip up. It is important to get things correct

Thanks Andrew
I didn't read the law section. What does he mean when he says

in all other Questions quite contrary.

Maybe I'll understand if I read the whole section from the beginning.

That's alright Gem. In all other questions of natural pose and ownership then the rulership by sign is stronger than the exaltation.

Lilly, CA pg 102:
If the significator be in his exaltation, and in no ways impedited but angular; it represents a person of haughty condition, arrogant, assuming more unto him than he is due.

Jacobsen pg 29:
A planet expresses best in its exaltation sign and is sure to rise to a higher position in the department in which it appears in the chart, through puch and pull.

Then I found this on the internet at http://www.astronor.com/dignities.htm

Andrew Bevan 1996:
A planet in its exaltation is in its highest ascendant. Exaltation is assertive, aggressive, competitive and conquering. Hence, exaltation may be both noisy and naughty. The planet by exaltation pushes himself to the front.

The exaltation is grabbing, reckless, without reservation or caution, Gem. A person represented by an exalted planet will visit you in your home, put his feet on the table and ask you to mind your own business. It is like a war. Remember the game between Birmingham and Arsenal? Cancer was on the ascendant ruled by Jupiter by exaltation. Jupiter was sitting on the des. in his fall in Capricorn. The game started with the Birmingham attacker going right into and behind the Arsenal lines, nailing the Arsenal player and bringing him to his knees. The Arsenal player got carried off and the B'ham player was sent off with a red card. This is the way the exaltation works..

The exaltation shows the extra-ordinary. The fall does everything wrong.

Thank you Andrew

A person represented by an exalted planet will visit you in your home, put his feet on the table and ask you to mind your own business. It is like a war.

I love the way you describe it

My understanding was that the nature of planets gets elevated in their characters and expressions. The raw aggressive Mars in Aries gets more controlled and organised in Capricorn; the stern Satrun in Capricorn gets modified and more sophisticated in Libra, and so on.
I'm grateful that you made me re-think about the meaning of Exaltation and also for the actual example you've given(the Birmingham-Arsenal match).