Yossarian wrote:

Like I said, it's purely subjective

As is your analysis of what follows

and those who are into new-age-pop-feel-good-psycho-babble astrology will probably enjoy Sabian Symbols stupendously, especially since it allows weaker astrologers who don't want to spend the time to learn craft to babble on as though they might actually know something.

There have been some really interesting and informative comments made in this thread. This, unfortunately, is not one of them. You have already made us aware of your opinion, so unless you have some new information to add, you shouldn't keep restating your view in such a derogatory manner.

Yossarian wrote:

Like I said, it's purely subjective and those who are into new-age-pop-feel-good-psycho-babble astrology will probably enjoy Sabian Symbols stupendously, especially since it allows weaker astrologers who don't want to spend the time to learn craft to babble on as though they might actually know something.

As I have made clear already I am not an enthusiast of Sabian symbols. Having stated that I think we need to detach our discussion of that from judgementalism about those using this technique. To conclude that others are 'weaker astrologers' just because they use a technique we disapprove of is a very slippery path in my view. I would rather keep this discussion based on astrological technique and avoid sweeping judgements about astrologers we have never met.

Underlying this discussion there appears to be a deeper philosophical issue. Is there such a thing as an objective astrological truth or must we accept truth as necessarily subjective and plural? The danger of the former approach is that we become narrow minded astro-fundamentalists arguing our interpretation is the only valid one. I confess some traditionalists stray a little close to this kind of line sometimes. The logic of the latter view is an a la carte pluralism where anything goes and every technique is equally valid. So is this debate any different from whether we prefer Pizza or Curry? Despite my line on Sabian symbols I tend to accept this latter view. This makes the discussion similar to a supermarket shopper deciding what to put in their astro basket rather than a battle between truth and falsehood. In practice thats the way most astrologers tend to operate. We select techniques and astrological schools that we resonate with and reject others we do not. Some of us are more consistent in our selections ie all medieval or Uranian while others are openly eclectic in what we work with.

Ultimately, then I have to acknowledge my dislike of Sabian symbols is really an issue of taste or preference. To go further than that seeks to invalidate others equally valid choices and experiences. I do think some astrological techniques are more powerful and precise than others. I do not find Sabian symbols compelling for this reason. However, again people vary in what they find compelling or powerful. This seems to leave astrology in the same territory as religion where most of agree tolerance of differing views is the best policy.

In fairness and to retain some consistency I am going to have to step back from my initial line on Sabian symbols being ''non-astrological'. I am sure a sociologist would tell us astrology is what astrologers do so on that basis Sabian symbols is astrology. Its just not the kind I rate that highly. I guess its the astrological equivalent of Brussel sprouts for me.
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MarkC wrote:
The original concept of decans used by the Ancient Egyptian was based on the rising fixed stars rather than planets or signs. This therefore seems an interesting return to something paralleling ancient practice.

In fact for a part, Albumasar list comes from "sphaera barbarica", i.e. egyptian/babylonian constellations.

I assume Federici Vescovini published her findings on Peter Albano's 360 degree meanings in Italian and German? As I study more my biggest regret is my lack of command of Latin or other modern languages.

- Pietro d?Abano e gli affreschi astrologici del Palazzo della Ragione di Padova, in Labyrinthos. Studi e ricerche sulle arti dal Medioevo al Barocco, 9 (1986), p. 50-75.

- Pietro d?Abano e l?astronomia-astrologia, in Bollettino del Centro Internazionale di Storia dello Spazio e del Tempo, 5 (1986), p. 30-44.

For me it's easier to read them, Italian is my mothertongue.

Thanks for the lovely illustration! I seem to remember hearing a short paper on this at a conference. Its been subject to considerable academic debate I believe?

I'm not sure, and it was very difficult to me to have the complete set of pictures, so you were lucky to hear about them at a conference. Anyway Fritz Saxl mentioned Abano's work in the preface of one of his manuscripts' catalogue.

I suspect all this material would be very welcome on the traditional forum here. I for one at least would love to find out more on all this. Any chance you could share some of this there at some stage?

I think so, as soon as possible.

Gjiada wrote:

In fact for a part, Albumasar list comes from "sphaera barbarica", i.e. egyptian/babylonian constellations.

For those interested in this area here is a well researched article on the use of non-greek constellations in hellenistic astrology ( i.e. sphaera barbarica' ) from the astronomer Garry Thompson's website:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gtosiris/page11-14.html

Hi everyone,

I don't know if Sabian Symbols are real or not but I thought the "phrases" for my stuff was nice.

ASC = The "Magic Carpet" Of Oriental Imagery (A whole new wooooooorld, a new fantastic point of vieeeeeeeeeeew...)

Sun/Jupiter = A Hen Scratching The Ground To Find Nourishment For Her Progeny (wtf? I guess that means taking care of my family. Thats cool.)

Moon = After The Wedding, The Groom Snatches The Veil Away From His Bride (Step right up ladies..)

Venus = Many Little Birds On A Limb Of A Big Tree (Is this the harem I've always wanted?)

Saturn = A Mermaid Emerges From The Ocean Waves Ready For Rebirth In Human Form (This could actually be telling....although I prefer to be called a merMAN.)

Mars = A Fine Lace Handkerchief, Heirloom From Valorous Ancestors
(Bravo! Maybe I do believe in these sabian symbol thingies)