I think the hour 19:24 is appropriate enough. MC in Scorpio and Mars in 8th in Virgo are needful to manipulate and control, the Sun in 6th to serve. Lord of the sociable Asc in Capricorn - slim body and seriousness, but not pessimistic because of with Jupiter. 12th house is, I think, the best place for Jupiter and Saturn to be together, besides essentially are good. Jupiter trine Moon and Saturn trine Mars are helpful. Venus i also pretty.

By the way, something interesting:


1. Greatest Bush Speech

2. Barack Obama Speech

zuli wrote:I think the hour 19:24 is appropriate enough. MC in Scorpio and Mars in 8th in Virgo are needful to manipulate and control, the Sun in 6th to serve. Lord of the sociable Asc in Capricorn - slim body and seriousness, but not pessimistic because of with Jupiter. 12th house is, I think, the best place for Jupiter and Saturn to be together, besides essentially are good. Jupiter trine Moon and Saturn trine Mars are helpful. Venus i also pretty.

My next newsletter, which I will start on next week, will feature Politicians & Astrologers. It will start,

Neptune, Neptune, Neptune & did I mention, Neptune? ... but I don't want to bore Skyscript readers.

The first thing you look for in a politician's chart are hard aspects from Neptune to personal planets. For Obama, Mercury square Neptune. Sun square Neptune. Jupiter (not a personal planet) square Neptune.

Squares to Neptune are aspects of delusion. One fools himself. Tony Blair, Neptune square Mercury, comes to mind. This deluded politician saw the world as better than it is. Those delusions got manipulated into a war by someone with a different agenda. But, happily, Tony is still so deluded as to not know. Maybe we should call Neptunian squares the Sucker Aspect. When Plutonians manipulate deluded Neptunians, the people in Neptune's charge (in this case British citizens) become victims. A Brazilian electrician's horrible death on a tube platform comes to mind.

Bill Clinton: Neptune conjunct Mars. Conjunctions are an inability to sense reality. In this case, as it's in his first house, everyone thinks you're not doing the right thing, because, well, maybe you're not.

Richard Nixon: Neptune opposite Mercury. Oppositions to Neptune are outright, knowing deceit. Lies.

Pluto is power for its own sake. Beware the politician with Pluto in the first house who lacks oppositions in his chart. He will run roughshod over everyone & everything, since, by definition, he knows no opposition: George W. Bush.

Hillary Clinton: Mars-Pluto conjunct, with Saturn making a stellium. Mars & Sun are in mutual reception as well as widely square.

John McCain: Sun Neptune conjunct: The swindler. Neptune-Venus conjunct. Neptune opposite Saturn. Pluto in the 10th.

This is really too easy. Name a prominent politician, look for his Neptune. Then look for his Pluto.

Political office naturally attracts the dishonest as well as those who crave power for its own sake. Astrologers can easily unmask both.

So why don't we?

Dave

obama's bc was posted on his website -- while it may or may not be accurate timewise (obstetricians having their own priorities other than clean time) it is authentic

(source: website Neptunecafe) The Obama camp finally released his birth certificate (birth time: 7:24 PM) in response to claims from the political fringe that he was born in Kenya, and therefore ineligible to run for president.
Obama was born at the Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu HI.
I rectified Barack H. Obama? s birth time with the Gieles minus 1 year predictsystem: 7h24m46s. PM ; co.ordinates: 21.23.02 N, 157.56.15,4 W.
Progressive aspects.
10-Jul-2007 006?,59'03 Pisces C-12 180 Plu
7-Jun-2008 016?,17'32 Gemini C--3 * RIGEL (JUP - MARS )
15-Jun-2008 026?,02'41 Capricornus Moon 60 C--2
8-Jul-2008 026?,56'47 Virgo Sun 120 mutual Moon
18-Jul-2008 027?,20'13 Capricornus Moon 0 mutual Jup
1-Aug-2008 027?,53'33 Capricornus Moon 150 Drac
6-Aug-2008 028?,04'57 Capricornus Moon 150 mutual Ura
16-Aug-2008 023?,16'56 Capricornus Sat 45 mutual C-12
27-Aug-2008 -08?,27'11 Mars // mutual C-12
27-Aug-2008 021?,47'35 Libra Merc * FORAMEN (SAT - JUP )
29-Aug-2008 029?,00'09 Capricornus Moon 60 MC
2-Sep-2008 008?,20'14 Pisces C-12 * SKAT (SAT - JUP )
23-Sep-2008 000?,00'00 Aquarius Moon Nw
30-Sep-2008 026?,02'41 Leo Ven 150 C--2
4-Okt-2008 000?,25'50 Aquarius Moon 90 C--3
11-Okt-2008 000?,43'08 Aquarius Moon * ALBIREO (VENUS - MERC )
14-Okt-2008 000?,51'20 Aquarius Moon 0 Jup
23-Okt-2008 021?,59'03 Libra Merc 45 Plu
24-Okt-2008 001?,14'01 Aquarius Moon * ALTAIR (MARS - JUP )
4-Nov-2008 008?,32'19 Virgo Plu 180 mutual C-12
4-Nov-2008 001?,40'24 Aquarius Moon 135 mutual C--3
7-Nov-2008 001?,47'49 Aquarius Moon 150 Ven
21-Nov-2008 002?,20'49 Aquarius Moon 180 Merc
25-Nov-2008 008?,36'26 Pisces C-12 120 Nep
29-Nov-2008 027?,20'00 Virgo Sun 120 mutual Jup
30-Nov-2008 002?,43'24 Aquarius Moon 180 Black Moon
14-Dec-2008 003?,16'40 Aquarius Moon * GIEDI (VENUS - MARS )
16-Dec-2008 003?,21'51 Aquarius Moon 120 Moon
17-Dec-2008 007?,35'06 Aquarius C-11 135 Mars
20-Dec-2008 003?,30'37 Aquarius Moon * DABIH (SAT - VENUS )
6-Jan-2009 004?,10'39 Aquarius Moon * OCULUS (SAT - VENUS )
16-Jan-2009 -17?,02'29 Moon # Sun
17-Jan-2009 004?,37'43 Aquarius Moon * BOS (SAT - VENUS )
3-Feb-2009 005?,18'46 Aquarius Moon 30 Chei
18-Feb-2009 022?,35'06 Libra Mars 30 Mars
20-Feb-2009 027?,33'14 Virgo Sun 45 Sun
16-March-2009 008?,57'50 Pisces C-12 90 Pars

I guess it would be nice, for those of us who aren't too au fait with progressions, to understand what you mean by all of these aspects, instead of just getting a long list of them...

GH

If it had one and the number is "blacked out", then does this not invalidate the certificate since at the bottom of the certificate it clearly states,

Any alterations invalidate this certificate

It invalidates it for official use. If, for example Obama tried to obtain a passport with that blacked out, he couldn't get one. For some reason the Obama campaign did not want the certificate number known, although I can't imagine what having that number might enable someone to do - identity theft?

Tom

This is exactly the point I'm having a problem with in regards to this certificate. The certificate number has only one function and that is to provide a reference in the case that anyone might want to check the validity of the certificate without compromising an individuals privacy.

What would be the purpose of providing false birth information? Why would the Obama campaign produce a false document? If they did that, they must be hiding something far more important than the time of birth.

Tom

In the beginning of this discussion, I provide a link with a speculative birth chart, (only god know where the time comes from) which the author likes and defends "how well it works".

Tom did a good critic of the method of using asteroids, little aspects, etc, also in the first page of discussion. I think it is worth reading for the ones who skip it.

Nothing more fair than to do a follow up:
http://stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0008784.HTM

The horoscope previously used for Obama (set for 1:06 pm) resonates strongly with the chart set for the correct time (7:24 pm).

Yeah, you have to love astrologers ! I know I do ! We are a funny bunch

http://regulus-astrology.com/obama_update.html

let me know if anybody disagrees with the assignment of taxes to the 8th house.

Hi Everybody!
I enjoy coming to this forum, as it's so informative. It's a treat!

I came across this information on Facebook - which lists Obama's birth time as follows:
BORN: Honolulu, Hawaii on Aug. 4, 1961, at 7:24 p.m. Sy Scholfield quotes data from an online copy of the BC sighted on an official Obama campaign website (http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert), plus the same in the following article in the Los Angeles Times (online version) which cites "Ben LaBolt, an Obama campaign spokesman" as verifying the information. The LAT article also includes a hyperlink to a full-page copy of the BC.

I got this from
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=1 ... topic=3430

Hope this helps.... or has someone already posted it?
Sisi