Thanks for the intention, sisi, but we already discussing this chart for some two pages. :-)

Dr H. Mars in virgo in 8th, bounds of mars, dodekatemoria of gemini, it occurs to me some possibilities:
- destruction of crops by fire
- destructive action against children
- taxes to sustain military, electric power, fuel or food production

If make a chart for 6 Jun, 2007 that day, Mercury sesquisquare Neptune, and Moon conjuntion Neptune, will be real a BC??
Regards
Mario

Hi, I would like to introduce myself. I'm a vedic astrologer from the states. I've been following the campaign over here and had originally made a prediction using the 1306 time Honolulu. However, it's getting murkier and murkier. The bc posted on his website is clearly a fraud. It states that Barack Sr's "race" is African. That is not a race. the usage at the time would have been to identify him as "negro". Now some question whether he was born in Kenya. I doubt that because, BO Sr had another wife back there and his family strenuously objected to the couple's "miscegenation." The other thing is that Stanley visited her high school friends in Mercer Island Washington a few weeks after the birth. Travel was a lot clumsier then than it is now. So possibly her parents sent her home for the summer break either to Kansas or Washington?
According to Hawaiian law that was in effect at the time of his birth, if only one parent is an American citizen, then he/she had to have lived in the US for at least 10 yrs, 5 of which would have to be after the 14th birthdate. She was a few months short of 19. Her birthday is 11/29/42. So he wouldn't be an automatic "natural-born" citizen as required by the constitution to run for POTUSA.
The new birth time of 7:24 PM does give the Ascendant as Aquarius (Vedic) conjunct Ketu for both Kenya & Honolulu as the birth place. He is left-handed. Does anyone know whether Ketu in the ascendant corresponds to left-handedness? Using Kenya, the Moon would be at 3 degrees 15 minutes Taurus (vedic). The RNC claims to have a birth certificate from Mombasa Kenya, which it will release after the Democratic convention 8/27. The Honolulu chart at 7:24 PM gives the Moon is at 10 degrees 19 minutes (vedic) and, of course, would be a Gemini Moon in the western system accounting for his notable Gemini characteristics. (body language). so it comes down to differentiating the "padas". Between 3 degrees 20 and 6 degrees 40 (Kenyan) the person is an "instigator". between 10 degrees and 13 degrees 20 (Honolulu) the person has "impolite speech" with good looks" I personally think the Kenyan chart fits him better. what do you think?
Most feel that he is hiding his chart because his name was "Barry" Durham.

According to Hawaiian law that was in effect at the time of his birth, if only one parent is an American citizen, then he/she had to have lived in the US for at least 10 yrs, 5 of which would have to be after the 14th birthdate. She was a few months short of 19. Her birthday is 11/29/42. So he wouldn't be an automatic "natural-born" citizen as required by the constitution to run for POTUSA.

Hawaiian law does not establish criteria for candidacy for President. US Law does. People born in Hawaii are not subject to different citizenship requirements than people born in North Dakota or any of the other states. The Constitution requires that the President be a natural born citizen and the Congress passes laws that define what that means - not the individual states. Citizenship is determined by the Congress

A few months back, before the current birth certificate flap, the Democrats circulated the rumor that John McCain didn't qualify for the Presidency because he was born in the Canal Zone. However, someone produced the relevant law and that particular piece on nonsense was put to rest. Like him or not, his candidacy is legitimate.

Barak's mother being short of her 19th birthday would have no bearing on his legitimacy whatsoever. The criteria is birth not the mother's age. He would or would not be a "natural born" citizen if the mother was 12. It is the circumstances of birth that matter.

A discussion of the birth certificate can be found here:

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/0 ... /#more-386

CAUTION: This is apparently a pro-Hillary Clinton Website or blog that has not quite accepted defeat and some of the information, perhaps all of it, is invalid.

Keep in mind this bc was issued only last year. It is a copy of original data. Mistakes happen. The use of the word "African" to denote a race is interesting, however, but it is not proof of fraud. After all in this hyphenated age of Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans et al we are encouraged to use the phrase African-Americans and Africa is not a country; it's a continent. The person typing the bc could be indoctrinated into this sort of political-correctness, and knowing for whom the bc was intended simply followed the current "custom." We're dealing with clerks, not Constitutional scholars

I'll see if I can find the law that the McCain group or one of his supporters provided and perhaps that will put this to rest.

Tom

I'm not sure about this Tom. He would qualify as a citizen, but perhaps not as a "natural-born" citizen. Yes I agree with you about McCain. Obviously his parents were citizens and he was born in a US Navy Hospital. Apparently 2 Democrats passed legislation favorable to his continued candidacy, namely, MasAskiill & Obama. However, the legislation pertains only to "military born personnel". One would wonder why Democrats would be interested in helping him. Allegedly, Obama was not happy with the outcome of the legislation as it only applied to "military personnel".
It has been suggested that the birth certificate that the Obama campaign provided was in no way authentic. It doesn't have a seal, signature, no birth weight. Some say it was computer manufactured from photobucket.
In any case, from an astrologer's point of view, it is quite frustrating.
Also, the RNC seems to have a birth certificate from Mombasa Kenya.

Also Tom please see this site http://www.visalaw.com/05jan1/2jan105.html
The rules for persons born between 1952 and 1986

OK the website recommended to me starts off with this sentence:

All persons born in the United States are citizens of the United States (with the very minor exception of certain children of diplomatic personnel).

If that's true, and I think it is, then Barak Obama's qualifications for the Presidency are settled, if he was born in one of the 50 states. The only way it is not settled is if he was born elsewhere and to date there is no information that I've seen that indicates otherwise.

I'm not sure about this Tom. He would qualify as a citizen, but perhaps not as a "natural-born" citizen. Yes I agree with you about McCain.

Hawaii is one of the 50 states. It was admitted to the Union in 1959. So if Barak Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961, he is a natural born citizen. One cannot be born of an American parent in America and be otherwise according to the website provided.

Arnold was born in Austria and not to American citizens. No one denies this - not even Arnold. In order for Arnold to be permitted to run for the Presidency a Constitutional Amendment would be required because the "natural born" requirement is part of the Constitution. Congress cannot amend the Constitution by itself. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

Apparently 2 Democrats passed legislation favorable to his continued candidacy, namely, MasAskiill & Obama

Are you saying that John McCain's qualifications for the Presidency were only determined by a law "passed"(you mean sponsored - two legislators cannot "pass" a law by themselves) by Barak Obama and MasAskill? Obama has only been in the US Senate for a little more than two years. If true, this means McCain's candidacy in 2000 was illegitimate. He ran for the nomination against GW Bush, if you recall.

According to the website you provided:

In 1934, Congress passed a law allowing US citizen parents, regardless of their gender, to pass citizenship to their children born abroad. If both parents were citizens, only one was required to have resided in the US, and as with the previous law, there was no required length of time that the parent must have resided in the US.

That seems to cover McCain who was born in 1936. Since no naturalization procedure was required, he must be considered a "natural born citizen.

Again, children born abroad to two US citizen parents were US citizens at birth, as long as one of the parents resided in the US at some point before the birth of the child.

When one parent was a US citizen and the other a foreign national, the US citizen parent must have resided in the US for a total of 10 years prior to the birth of the child, with five of the years after the age of 14. An exception for people serving in the military was created by considering time spent outside the US on military duty as time spent in the US.

This seems to cover Obama regardless of the status of his father, assuming the birth certificate is correct.

Regarding the birth certificate and birth weight. The anti validity folks are grasping at straws here. Trust me, I am an American citizen. My parents were both born in the USA, as was I and I've never lived anywhere else. My recently obtained certified copy of my birth certificate issued by the city in which I was born does not list my birth weight or my birth time, and the most recent copy has my mother's name wrong. Any of these things could have happened to Obama.

However I now understand what the purpose of producing a fraudulent birth certificate would be. If Obama was not born in the USA to the same people we all accept as his parents, then he does not appear to meet the requirements of a natural born citizen. If Obama was born to the woman we believe to be his mother, but outside the US, he might have a problem. Blocking out the certificate number would be understandable as that number could be traced and used to prove the document a fraud. But if Obama's mother lived in the US, for the required time, and he was born in the State of Hawaii, then it appears that does meet the requirements as a "natural born citizen" as required by the US Constitution.

If the republicans are sitting on proof that would derail his candidacy on the grounds of citizenship, and they are holding it for a time that would create the most chaos, this will be interesting. It might also explain why Hillary has not yet released her delegates.

Tom

Apparently, there is also a birth certificate in Mombasa, Kenya for him and so far no legal one has shown up in Hawaii. I saw a few birth certificates on the web, but so far no one has vetted it. Also, with regard to the birth certificate provided by the http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washing ... birth.html: "What seems to be missing on Obama's copy is the signature of the State Registrar of Vital Statistics and the raised state seal. This is the birth certificate provided by the Obama campaign; compare it to what a real one looks like, thanks to http://obamafact.blogspot.com/2008/06/l ... -fool.html As you can see on the birth certificate, it states that Obama was born 8/4/61 at 7:24 PM, but it wasn't registered until 8/8/61. Some believe that he was, in fact, born in Kenya and that his parents returned to the US to establish his citizenship. The other point is that according to Kenyan law he has dual citizenship, which also makes him ineligible for POTUSA.

Also, the fact that the bc on his official website http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert
is a fraud and that he is using it, I believe, is a Federal crime.
The republican strategy is to overlook this, until Obama is made the "official candidate" in August. Then their press will tear him to shreds, when the RNC presents the Kenyan bc.
My point in raising this on this astrology site was to ask about the difference in the qualities of the native with a Moon position at 10 degrees 19 minutes (Taurus vedic) and a person with a Moon at 3 degrees 19 minutes (Taurus vedic) Kenya. As I mentioned before, according to the different "padas" at 3 degrees... the native would be an "an instigator", at 10 degrees..a native with "impolite speech." And, as I said before the Kenyan chart seems to fit, in my humble opinion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr1GhSvuGcs

My interest in this is astrological only, and gleaning some information as to how the several states each handle these matters. That can of importance to astrologers. For instance, by going through such exercises years ago, it was learned that for a period, the state of Pennsylvania forbid the use of daylight savings time on birth certificates. It was also learned that some hospitals, notably in Philadelphia, the state's largest city, ignored the edict, while others followed it. Therefore people born in Philadelphia in the summertime during that period did not know if the time on the birth certificate was valid. I don't know if that problem was ever worked out.

Also, the fact that the bc on his official website http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert
is a fraud and that he is using it, I believe, is a Federal crime.
The republican strategy is to overlook this, until Obama is made the "official candidate" in August. Then their press will tear him to shreds, when the RNC presents the Kenyan bc.

Misuse of a bc to obtain, say a passport or to illegally run for President is probably a federal crime. Misuse to obtain, say, a driver's license would be a state crime. It depends on how it is used. I doubt simple possession of a fraudulent birth certificate, and publishing it on the web is a crime at all. It depends on what you do with it. I've never run for President, but I'd be surprised if there are no filings that require proof of citizenship. If Obama has done this fraudulently, then he is guilty of a crime, probably federal, but proof would be nice.

Deliberately withholding evidence of a crime is a crime in itself. I doubt the RNC would sit on this and risk prosecution, although they might -believing the story of his fraud would overshadow their own culpability. I don't suppose there is any documentation of this dark plot?

If the RNC has such a powerful press, they might want to use it to gain seats in the legislature. So far its been dormant.

Tom[/u][/i]

Obviously, in the case you posted, there would be a need for rectification to assess whether or not the events of the native's life correspond to the chart. (in the case of query about daylight savings time or not used in hospital).
I'm not sure who started the demand for the BO's bc or why.
It would seem to me a relatively simple thing for a candidate to supply.
The fact that his campaign has offered this as proof raises more questions than it answers.
Even ordinary observers have been able to debunk the "so-called" bc. They found similar images on photobucket. Also compared it to authentic bc's. So, yes we all know he's hiding something. Probably his out-of-wedlock birth and his birth name Barry Dunham. No big deal.
Sources, like politico.com have stated that he was "affirmative actioned" into the position of Pres of the Harvard Law Review and, while there, never wrote a single paper. so, you have to understand his mindset. He thinks we owe him something for his miserable childhood, during which he was abandoned not just by one parent, but by both.

Obviously, in the case you posted, there would be a need for rectification to assess whether or not the events of the native's life correspond to the chart. (in the case of query about daylight savings time or not used in hospital).
I'm not sure who started the demand for the BO's bc or why.
It would seem to me a relatively simple thing for a candidate to supply.
The fact that his campaign has offered this as proof raises more questions than it answers.
Even ordinary observers have been able to debunk the "so-called" bc. They found similar images on photobucket. Also compared it to authentic bc's. So, yes we all know he's hiding something. Probably his out-of-wedlock birth and his birth name Barry Dunham. No big deal.
Sources, like politico.com have stated that he was "affirmative actioned" into the position of Pres of the Harvard Law Review and, while there, never wrote a single paper. so, you have to understand his mindset. He thinks we owe him something for his miserable childhood, during which he was abandoned not just by one parent, but by both.

I'm not sure who started the demand for the BO's bc or why.

Supposedly his campaign provided the document to quell rumors that he was not born in the US and that his real name was Mohamed.

The reason I tend to believe the BC is correct is the time given, 7:24 PM. This is very close to the rectification done by Dr. H (7:54:28 PM) that was published weeks (months?) before the birth certificate was provided. If the BC was a total fraud, that would be one helluva coincidence.

Tom