John and Gem,
Thanks for your interesting comments on the ManU chart. They make a lot of sense. I also agree with your observations re Moon conj IC and angular Moon in general.

Gem wrote:I'm beginning to wonder if Moon on any angle favours the AC,

I'd been thinking along those lines myself in view of recent results. Definitely something to continue monitoring. It also ties in with Deb's theory re Moon signifying the home team as local faves. I think that's really interesting, so good luck with your "new approach", Deb

Susie no one seems to have taken up your offer, sorry. Thanks, but my mind is freaked out with sports charts at the mo. I?ve entered my next week?s predictions, but I think I need to do them again because I get so confused about which team is the favourite. You would think it is easy to find out on the web but everybody seems to assume you know based on odds - but I don?t understand how to read odds either!!! ( I know about 7-1 or 10-1, etc, but football odds seems to be things like home 9/5 draw 3/5 away 7/4, so my head is aching).

I now realise how important it is to know which team is the favourite, just as you need to know which team is at home. I was thinking before that this sort of knowledge would only cloud the astrological judgement because my previous approach expected these charts to be as self-contained as horaries. But this now seems more like mundane astrology ? applying layers of mundane influences and predictive techniques over common sense and normal expectations.

Thanks for the good luck wish Ficina ? I need it! My ?new approach? is probably something that the rest of you worked out and rejected years ago, but I definitely agree with your strong Moon theory, and I liked this comment that Gem made:

Regarding angular Moon, we used to look at it as a strong testimony for the AC team if it's on the AC/MC; and for the DC team when on the IC and DC. I'm beginning to wonder if Moon on any angle favours the AC, as it seems that when the Moon is strongly placed in the chart, goals are produced. There may be exceptions though, when the Moon is exactly on the cusp of the DC and the IC favouring the DC team(some of you may remember the examples from last season).

Part of the view that I am working on is that the chart centres upon the ?fight? or ?the contest? that the home team is engaged in. So if the match is say, Liverpool v Arsenal, at home at Liverpool; then the whole chart is mainly focused on what is happening at Liverpool, and played out by the collective moods, uplifts and disappointments at that place. It's just an event chart for a moment at Liverpool really, but for that moment the city's identity and expectations are represented through its football team. The opposition is in the chart, but incidentally, and shouldn?t get quite the same amount of attention. A favourable Moon, benefics on angles or signs of victory in the Midheaven, all these suggest victory for the home team; whereas a strong Moon, lots of Mars influence, and angular planets, add to the 'excitement' of the game. I?m obviously using the home team=ascendant theory, but using the knowledge of the favourite to judge whether something like a draw could be perceived as ?victory? for a home team that was the underdog to begin with.

I think it is a good theory. I just don?t know that it works in practice. There are too many matches over the weekend for me to think about, but I like the way that just one or two matches get spotlighted here.

Good luck to the rest of you. If you all keep up the good results, it?s not so bad that my failures pull down the collective results

Hi Deb

I must tell you that I now have far more doubts as to my prediction abilities, as when I started Oh, and I can't make head or tails out of odds either...... so no help there.

And the moon as the favourites, and the faves getting the Asc, is exactly where the rub lies

One thing though that I've learned: always go with your first impression - when I go back and "tweak" my results, I confuse myself hopelessly...

Must be my demented Mercury in detriment

Susie

P.S. It's so much fun though, isn't it?!?

I forgot to mention this: in my rugby chart, I had exactly this scenario: I blithely gave the Asc to the home team, but now knowing the outcome, I'm wondering if they shouldn't have gotten the Desc instead....

Susie

Deb
I've enjoyed reading your post above. I think it's a good theory too.

I now realise how important it is to know which team is the favourite, just as you need to know which team is at home

My basic starting point in reading a chart is to assume odds on faves are to win, however rotten the chart may appear. In the Premier League, there is such a huge gap and difference in strengths, abilities, quailites and the size of the squad between the Top Four (ManU, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea) and the rest, particularly the teams near the bottom of the table. Take for instance the Sunderland/Liverpool match, which I forgot to mention last night. As Deb said the chart didn't look brilliant for the AC team. The LOH squaring the AC indicates that the match didn't kick off at a favourable time for them. Liverpool struggled throughout the match; there was not much of chance to score goals.

Overall, not a lot in the chart, but the 1st ruler was doing very well accidentally. There seems to have been a few comments about the Moon signifying the favourites and that looking good, but this Moon was peregrine, slow, lacked angularity, and was about to conjoin Neptune and then be eclipsed by an opposition to the Sun, so I just can't see how this was a good sign for the favourites.

The aspects the Moon makes often describes the flow of the game and the concrete result(ie goals). In the game, a goal finally came near the end(slow Moon opposing Sun after passing Neptune; the nature of aspects aren't usually relevant); it was an extraordinary goal. Hadn't Liverpool had such a talented individual, would the match have been easily ended in a draw(POF trining Moon also helped). A journalist said it was one chance and one goal.

I wasn't watching the match but I checked the internet at what I thought was the end. It was about 85 mins and the score was 0-0. I was amazed and went down to the bottom of the garden to tell my husband, who had laughed his head of when I told him my prediction (not literally, but I imagined that he did). So you can guess how gutted I was when I came back to my desk and found out about the late goal. My nervous system was wrecked. It was like one of those fixed stars had lifted me to a great height of heaven, and then dropped me just as quickly

But I get your point Gem. One goal makes a prediction completely wrong, but I prefer to believe that there are lucky breaks to be grabbed in any situation, and that nothing is so fated that we can make no allowance for chance. So actually I prefer the view that in this kind of situation, astrologers should be judged on improved results *overall*.

Deb wrote: My nervous system was wrecked. It was like one of those fixed stars had lifted me to a great height of heaven, and then dropped me just as quickly

Deb, can I ask a question please, regarding the Lord of Hour? In traditional practice, was the condition of the LOH considered important or noted at all in electional work?

Traditionally yes, and the further you go back in time, the more significant it seems to have been. There are a few lingering aphorisms in medieval works, but it looks like renaissance authors really just paid lip service to the idea of LOH in electional work. To be honest, it's not something that I give much thought to, outside of horary.

Thank you Deb

Deb wrote:My nervous system was wrecked.

I was also in a state of nerves after Torres scored - in the 83rd minute actually because the radio commentator said 7 minutes to go plus stoppage time. I was hoping for no more goals because that would have messed up my prediction!

Deb and Susie, I have emailed you a list of odds which I hope will help you. Alternatively if you're more comfortable with decimals than fractions, most of the betting sites have an option to view the odds in decimals.

If you're still confused, the faves in next weekend's games are Blackburn, Liverpool, Newcastle, Villa, Spurs (Tottenham), Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and ManU. All of these are odds-on, apart from Everton and Man City.

Just got back from Europe and with 3 of my children starting back at school this week there has been plenty to do. I'll get my head wrapped into some games soon. Could the fact that the the season started in the shaddow of the lunar eclipse have any effect upon how this season will develop?

By the way the Moon occulted Neptune just prior to entering the Earths shaddow. This made it an easy object to pick it up in the telescope. What an awesome sight... 29 times further away from the sun than the Earth. So small and tiny. It makes you wonder how anyone could be bother to discover it in the first place...

Good heavens!

This odds business has really thrown me.....

Looking at the chart of the Liverpool vs Middelsbrough, I am conflicted! Astrology says one thing, odds quite another.

Maybe I should sit on the fence for this one

Susie