Nevermind. You guys aren't referring to partile aspects. I was under the impression for it to be 'No' answer that it had to be an exact aspect. Sorry for adding to my thoughts every few minutes..My mind is just racing. So do I tell the querent that the answer is 'No'? now??? That will be rough.

Well, looking at the Astrodienst ephemeris, the way it looks, is that Mercury squares Jupiter, yes? Then Mars squares Jupiter. Then Venus squares Jupiter and THEN it conjuncts Mars. Mercury in the meantime, has already conjuncted Mars, before Venus gets there. So everything gets very messy, because the aspects are boom, boom, boom. But like Goca, I think there are other things to think about besides the Moon.

GH

No, it is not!

Woah, no need to shout. My earlier reply was only based on a quick look to answer the Moon question after all. Now that the interposition of Jupiter has been noticed, that needs to be brought into the judgement. Just because a planet interposes in an aspect it does not mean the application in null and void. As I said earlier, the matter of whether the planet is afflicting (hostile/destructive) or assisting (friendly/benevolent) is relevant. Despite what Lilly writes in his introductory definitions, his explanations and examples in his horary volume show that, to him at least, frustration wasn?t just a technicality, it was a matter of judgement. The question is ? is Jupiter a destructive planet in this chart, which would mean its interposition in a hostile one? But Jupiter might be assisting (in which case it increases the prospects of perfection), or it could be neutral, describing something like a place or activity where the two significators meet.

Sorry I don?t have time to add more to this but I have my hands full with my own client charts at the moment, and I've had to rush this answer more than I like to. Don?t forget that there are several positive indications here, including the Moon applying to Venus, which by itself is a positive sign.

Notcool you need to Becool You can?t make a good judgement whilst your mind is wheeling. Since you are the astrologer for this chart then at the end of the day only you can put the judgement together. There?s no need to rush, take your time. Sometimes it helps to take your mind right off a chart and then go back to it later when your mind is clear.

It is my understanding that jupiter and venus rarely negatively affect each other, the jupiter meeting may merely re-inforce the Venus mars conj? well that has been my experience anyway, to me mercury has a much better case for interferance than Jupiter.

other experiences?

Granny

granny_skot wrote:It is my understanding that jupiter and venus rarely negatively affect each other, the jupiter meeting may merely re-inforce the Venus mars conj? well that has been my experience anyway, to me mercury has a much better case for interferance than Jupiter.

other experiences?

Granny

I agree. Jupiter/Venus opposition or square are one of the few that I would not mind seeing.

When you say that Mercury has a better case for interference what do you mean by that exactly? Would the square Jupiter casts on Mercury negate the applying conjunction of Venus and Mars in your experience?

for future reference for anybody facing this question..

"When a fast moving planet applies by major aspect to a second planet a third planet, the translator, which is faster than both of them separates from one and applies to the other. The translating planet has the power to bring the two together even before the aspect is perfected in the ephemeris.


Astrologers may wonder why in examples 2 of each rule it is necessary for collection and translation to take place at all since the two planets will eventually aspect each other anyhow. The reason is that two planet aspects are more vulnerable to attack from other planets as seen in the rules frustration and prohibition. Three planet aspects protect each other by bonding together in translation and collection of light. This means that they are not affected by frustration, prohibition or refranation which are illustrated by examples 3, 4 & 5 above of the 5 basic planetary movements. Number 3 represents prohibition, 4 frustration and 5 refranation. "


So-basically, the translation of light brings the two planets into aspect BEFORE the aspect is perfected in the ephemeris, so it would make it act as if the aspect has already occured in the cosmic soul. When there is a translation of light the planets are no longer influenced by the power from other planets to 'ruin' the applying aspect.


Courtesy of McCann.

Hi hiimnotcool:

There seems to be an element of secrecy involved here. Maybe its just that you haven't conveyed your feeling to Venus.

But looking ahead to Sep. 11, *after* Mercury, Venus & Mars have all finished their squares to Jupiter, Venus then is freed up to move in to conjoin with Mars near around 8 PM MDT - there is no frustration to that conjunction.

Jupiter seems to have a significant role here. ? Interesting.

Saturn actually catches up to Jupiter when Jupiter turns direct and is stationary, near midnight of the 8th of Spt.

Venus will complete its own square to Jupiter just as the moon moves in to conjunct with Jupiter at the same time.

Only then, after the moon leaves Jupiter and Jupiter turns direct having completed its Saturn trine, will Venus finally conjuct with Mars.

Looks like a few things need to happen first, all revolving around some event(s) with Jupiter.

RC

Jupiter is in really, really bad shape. I wouldn't want a Jupiter like this trying to 'help' me. It's a bit like giving my 10-year old son a chainsaw to 'help' me in the garden. I was always under the impression that benefics, when badly placed, cause as much trouble as a healthy malefic...Jupiter is in fall, retrograde, stationing direct...yuk.

GH

Gunhilde wrote:Jupiter is in really, really bad shape. I wouldn't want a Jupiter like this trying to 'help' me. It's a bit like giving my 10-year old son a chainsaw to 'help' me in the garden. I was always under the impression that benefics, when badly placed, cause as much trouble as a healthy malefic...Jupiter is in fall, retrograde, stationing direct...yuk.

GH

I agree with all of this, but I just don't see what Jupiter has to do with this horary question. It doesn't involve Jupiter at all. I think I'm just trying to understand where everyone else is coming from regarding Jupiter here. The way I have learned horary is to pay attention to the significator/co-significator of the question and if those aspects are brought to perfection then the answer is 'Yes'. There is no regard for the negative states of other planets. But if I am misinformed and there is other things I should be looking at in ALL horary charts in general then I'd really love to know. I am grateful for all of the responses this thread has gotten because it has forced me to research and read more than I would have. Thank you all very much.

I think what people are saying is that Mars squares Jupiter before Mercury reaches Mars (thereby effecting a translation) and before Venus and Mars conjunct one another and that this could be a prohibition (or it might not be) depending on what Jupiter represents. I think. If you check the ephemeris, and the order in which the aspects perfect you will see that this is right. You then have to make a judgement based on the context of the question as to what you think will happen.

S

SRS wrote:I think what people are saying is that Mars squares Jupiter before Mercury reaches Mars (thereby effecting a translation) and before Venus and Mars conjunct one another and that this could be a prohibition (or it might not be) depending on what Jupiter represents. I think. If you check the ephemeris, and the order in which the aspects perfect you will see that this is right. You then have to make a judgement based on the context of the question as to what you think will happen.

S

Right. I suppose my understanding of a Translation is that it brings to aspect into perfection BEFORE it actually reaches it in the ephemeris. That's the whole strength of a translation. It is meant to protect the two significators from outside influences in the form of prohibition, frustration, and refranation. So in my train of thought, even though yes Jupiter will reach its square with Mars before Mercury gets there, the applying aspect was already perfected once the question was asked due to the translation of light. But my interpretation could be off, and translation can't occur until the planet doing the translating reaches the receiving planet. But then I would be led to ask that if that is the case, what did McCann mean when he said that '3 planets in aspect protect eachother by bonding together through translation or collection, this means they are not affected by prohibition, frustration, or refranation'. I am just trying to understand the technicalities here. I've only been using horary for around a week so it's very new to me, but I've learned quite a bit in that time frame.

You know, nevermind. I don't know why I didn't figure it out before. Translation would have to touch the other planet in order to translate. It's going from a direct application of one significator to the direct application of another. Only after the translating passes is the matter brought to perfection. I understand now. I had an epiphany as I went onto the porch to sit in the Sun for awhile to get my mind off of it. I am the querent in the question by the way, but I'm just going to have to suck it up and give it a big fat 'No'. Thanks everyone for the great insight. I am disappointed in the answer, but I guess coming to grips with it is the only choice now lol.

Hopefully I will be able to be involved in other peoples questions and help make things clear like everyone here has done for me. Thanks again.