Ed F wrote:Not to go too far off-topic, but your program looks good. I wouldn't bother with Placidus under-the-pole primaries - they're only an approximation to the semiarc version.
When I wrote AstroFrames, I decided not to bother with inputting fixed star info from Sweph. But once the files can be read, and one has a way to select which stars to use, it should work simply with the various calculation routines.

Hi Ed,

I saw your website too (AstroFrames), it's a good program. I only wrote Morinus because I use Linux instead of Windows and Astrolog -as far as I know- can't calculate primary directions. And of course, it's better to use your own software.
Here, in Hungary the astrologers either use Placidian under the pole(Kuehr) or symbolic on the ecliptic (I don't know all of them). The old ones are following the Astrology Center of Dusseldorf (Schwickert, Kuehr, ...). I've been familiar only with Placidian(under the pole) so far but Placidian(semiarc) is a must. I haven't compared them so far but I was planning to. You said that the under-the-pole is an approximation of the semiarc. It's a valuable information but why does under the pole exist then? Why did Placidus invented it?
Unfortunately Rumen's book on Placidian(under-the-pole) is not out yet.

rob

Martin Gansten wrote:Are you aware that there is an existing commercial astrology software called Morinus?

Hi Martin,

Thanks. Yes, I know that Wim Van Dam's program is called Morinus or Morinus200.
I wanted to call mine Placidus but there is a commercial hungarian program with that name(calculates Placidian(under the pole only)).
Mine won't be a commercial program, I would only like it to do the traditional stuff well (e.g. Frank Glahn's life cycle won't be implemented because it's not (acc.to one of the best hungarian astrologer).

rob

Hi Rob,

There has been another booklet on the theme primary directions by Rumen Kolev.It? first volume series : The primary directions & history of astrology- Bulletin of Research,Vol.1,Sep.2006,Varna,Bulgaria-"Gauricus & Henry II-Medieval astrological Prognosis".It is possible order only directly over R.Kolev.Second volume yet go wrong,but would have been in preparation.

rob wrote:... It's a valuable information but why does under the pole exist then? Why did Placidus invented it?
Unfortunately Rumen's book on Placidian(under-the-pole) is not out yet.

rob

I believe it was because the calculations were supposed to be easier with trig tables.

Anyway, note that AstroFrames can be built with some minor troubles for
Linux and most other UNIX-like OS's. In any case you might find the source distribution of use for the primary calculations (primaries_views-calculations.ad?).

- Ed

Ed F wrote:Anyway, note that AstroFrames can be built with some minor troubles for Linux and most other UNIX-like OS's. In any case you might find the source distribution of use for the primary calculations (primaries_views-calculations.ad?).

I saw your program first when I was searching for Placidian(semiarc).
I know that it's also a multiplatform software. I checked its code and saw that perhaps it was written in pascal(with Kylix!?) and I am a C/C++ programmer. OK, I don't want other non-programmers get bored :-).

It's written in Ada - very portable. Back to topic!

Rob

It's a valuable information but why does under the pole exist then? Why did Placidus invented it?

Placido compiled trigonometric tables so he could approximate semi-arc cusps in a natal horoscope (see my It?s the Oblique Sphere, stupid! in the articles section of this site.) He never intended that these tables should replace the theoretical model he described but most students took no notice.

As stated, Magini had conquered the problem of calculating natal cusps but in a world of no computers or even calculators, ?under the pole? was also a swift and easy way to approximate primaries.



MikeW

Hi,

I've got Rumen's books on PD this morning. I ordered them from www.halloran.com and they forwarded my order to Rumen Kolev, so I finally got them from Bulgaria.
It means that I got them in three weeks.

R.

Hi,

I have Makransky's and Rumen Kolevs's books on PDs.
I'd like to clarify the meaning of a zodiacal PD:

-the latitude of both the promissor and significator are not used
-the latitude of the promissor is not used but that of the signifiactor is used
-the latitude of the significator is not used but that of the promissor is used

Are all of these zodiacal directions? I am not talking about Field Plane directions where another planet's latitude is assigned to zodiacal aspects.
Perhaps the answer depends on if there is a zodiacal aspect or only a conjunction!?
e.g:
ZOD conj Mars D -> conj Moon
ZOD conj Mars D -> quadrat Moon
ZOD quadrat Mars D -> conj Moon
Is the answer the same in these cases?

rob

Rob,

ZOD conj Mars D -> conj Moon
ZOD conj Mars D -> quadrat Moon
ZOD quadrat Mars D -> conj Moon
Is the answer the same in these cases?

No, it isn't. A direction in zodiaco is normally understood to mean a conjunction or zodiacal aspect where neither point has any latitude. Some authors have advocated hybrid forms; E.C. K?hr, for instance, used the mundane position of the significator to determine its Placidean circle of position, but directed the promissor in zodiaco. But before the 15th century, to the best of my knowledge, it was all done in zodiaco. Latitudes were considered in judging the intensity of the effect, but not the timing.

Martin Gansten wrote:No, it isn't. A direction in zodiaco is normally understood to mean a conjunction or zodiacal aspect where neither point has any latitude.

Thanks Martin! I was a little bit confused because in Rumen's book he talks about the way the astrologers directed, but not about which is the authentic. Perhaps it would be a good idea to order Rumen's other book(The history of astrology).

rob

Some might find this of historical interest ...

Luke Broughton, in his Elements of Astrology (1906), writes (p. 170):

There are what are termed Primary Directions, which we have to notice. These are reckoned by every degree in the longitude of the planets, as being equal to one year in the child's life. For instance, Uranus is 4 degrees from a square of Mercury's place, therefore, at 4 years of age it would be an evil period for the child, and there being an evil secondary direction that came up for that year, it would intensify that secondary evil direction. Those primary directions are reckoned both by what are termed Direct, and also what are termed Converse Directions, that is, they are both noticed when the planets are applying to the aspect, and also when they are leaving any aspect.

Actually, what Broughton describes is the "one-degree measure," a symbolic direction reckoned entirely by longitude.