I also think there is some sort of income derived from sexual themes as I mentioned porno film director.

Sorry I wasn't copying you. I got so caught up in the chart I didn't even notice you had said that.

Well lets hope one of us has hit the nail on the head somewhere or we will both be eating humble pie on Friday.

Mark,

It did not even enter my mind regarding copying, at all. If our trade is good, we all should be saying the same thing, according to the rules of Astrology, right? But there are so many rules, and considerations!!

It is a good sign, that two astrologers interpreted it the same way, don't you think? It is also some sort of confirmation for me anyway, that my interpretation is in line with what you saw! Astrology can be a tricky business, and fraught with little nuances, we all said pretty much the traditional readings for the chart configuration, which is a good thing?? Maybe, we will soon find out, and if we are all wrong, then we all need to go back and (tweak) change some of the accepted manifestations of the planets, houses and aspects!

Lets hope we are close!

Okay,

Here it is:

Alcyone-Pleidas, the weeping sisters at 29 Taurus (at the year of his birth 1944) conjuncts his 10th cusp; His fate/career was "something to weep about" and its ruler, is in the 12th house of sorrows and enemies. (He actually retired twice, from two different jobs. Gemini intercepted in 10th house, his 2nd job which he also retired from.)

The most prominent planets in his chart for the issues I was looking at are Jupiter and Mars. Jupiter being right on his ASC was most important probably in affecting his life and Mars is also close to his ASC. These two planets appear to be working together in his life.

Notably, at his birth, Mars of war & military had just passed over Jupiter which is in detriment. Both are on/near his ASC. The 7th house stands for many things but here it represents war & open enemies, so Jupiter in detriment on his ASC showed he would go to war in service(Virgo) to his country. Mars of war/military matters having just passed over Jupiter & Jupiter conjunct Regulus, of military matters on his ASC, all point to this. His career was indeed "something to weep about".

His background:
Before he was 18, he lied about his age to enter the Army. Some months later feeling he was not being challenged enough, he transferred to the Marine Corp. feeling it had a more impressive/tougher image. (His Leo showing) Later, he wrote many letters home threatening to run away and go AWL because it was far more brutal than he had imagined. But he finally managed to get through it, probably because his base was surrounded by swampland which made it pretty much impossible to get away. Some did try back in those days never to be heard of again. Marine boot camp in later years was reformed so as to make it less of a horror for the young men.

After completing boot camp and other training, he was later deployed to Vietnam and served in active combat as a machine gunner. After completing his tour he came home - without any injury. Then for some crazy reason, wanting to go back into action, he volunteered for a 2nd term. He didn't have to go! Crazy huh? He later confessed that when he volunteered for the 2nd term, he truly thought he would not be coming home. Perhaps a death wish? I had heard there was actually a medical term for soldiers who came back feeling compelled to return to combat.

During that second term, he drove a military supply truck to the embedded troop stations to keep them equipped with artillery.

The 12th house rules enemies as well as other things that were mentioned in the replies here. When I first saw his chart, my first reaction was to wonder how or why a regular person (not a criminal etc.) would have so many enemies? Then when looking at Jupiter & Mars it all fit perfectly.

Regulus on his Asc, he was promoted rapidly, receiving accommodations. After his tours of duty were over, he worked several years as a "gunny Sergeant" a/k/a drill instructor. (He took on the same position of that which he loathed as a new recruit.) He rose as high as his education level would allow. He never finished high school. After several years as a 'gunny', he taught weapons and worked on the firing range instructing the soldiers in weapons, target practice, tanks, etc. until he retired.

Other 12th house matters fit him as well:

After the war was over for a time, he was in charge of the marine brig
(military jail) and after he left the military, he was also a prison guard (for men) for a while until he found steady employment with a foreign owned company in the U.S. operating heavy equipment like bulldozers and such.

The benefic planets in the 12th, though they didn't keep him out of *enemy territory*, they no doubt gave him protection. Benefics in the 12th do not prevent the 12th house matters from occurring but they reduce their harm and bring protection. He never received any injuries from his service.

Just to give one example of how these benefics gave protection:

A spy that had been put in charge of detonating roadside bombs to blow up any military vehicles passing a particular road, misunderstood her orders, thinking she was supposed to only blow up "jeeps". She watched
from her hiding post as his supply truck delivered several truck loads of weaponry before she was caught. When interrogated, she explained she had been waiting on "jeeps". If not for her misunderstanding her orders, he would have been blown up.

These benefics have protected him repeatedly in other 12th house matters as well which I won't go into here.

Since many commented on his personal side;

He has a good sense of humor, easily laughs at situations and it?s quite infectious. He has a very unique way of seeing humor in situations others might not have noticed and then making it hysterically funny in a contagious way. He has a natural comedic ability.

At the same time, I don't think anyone really knows him. He is somewhat introverted. He likes to keep his home quiet and private (his Leo
castle). So he hates it when his wife's relatives all pile in but is a good host once forced into it. However he still stays in touch with his old friends from the military however and has kept his friends and sees them occasionally so he's not anti social - just likes his privacy and is overall a quiet, reserved person except with those he knows well.

His favorite movies are horror films (the older kind, not the gorey kind they make nowdays). He always got a kick out of being scared. On the other end of the scale, one of his favorite t.v. shows is the "Dog Whisperer" probably because he loves animals - especially dogs.

He married at about age 20 to a "good girl" ( he was old fashioned that way - she had to be a good girl). They are still married today. They had two children. His first born, a son, looking up to him, joined the marines and served in the Gulf War. Unlike his father however, he got out after coming home.

I'll leave it at that since the main focus was on the 12th house and what it showed.

Hope his story wasn't too boring after all the mystery! You guys were getting close. And some of you saw the military connection, and MarkC mentioned the possibility of a veteran.

It was fun!
RC

RC,

That was really, really wonderful write-up!! Sounds like a great guy and a wonderful friend of yours, one to be treasured, as I am sure you do!

I want to thank you for that exercise, I really enjoyed it and it is another reminder why I always tell my clients that Astrology is not being psychic, and there are a million possible combinations! I also ask them about their current situation and tell them the more I know their situation and what they want to hone in on, the better I can help them.

Hello RC,

Thanks for sharing all that. A very interesting excercise. Some useful lessons for me here. I am not a professional and haven't done that many natal charts. My experience is more in horary. I therefore value the chance to let rip like this.

One thing I can see I overdid was the essential dignities at the expense of the accidental dignities. That is a useful lesson for natal study. Also the natural significations of the planets are always important. Jupiter as ruler of the 7th on the ASC did support his 'good' wife. I got too hung up on the planet in detriment.

12th house was of course the house of secret enemies and with 20/20 vision that was always a possibility. However, the 7th as in its role as open enemies was something that didn't occur to me.

One thing I would not interpret quite the same is the 'protection' the person seemed to have. Most traditionalists would see Jupiter on the angle like that as actually in the 1st house not the 12th. I think the Jupiter trine the MC from the ASC helps to explain a lot of these lucky escapes you mention. I have Jupiter on the ASC myself doing this and I sometimes feels I have a guardian angel pulling me out of difficult situations. Of course in this chart the planet was closely conjunct Regulus which no doubt added to that consideration.

More than anything I am really rather embarrased I missed the MC on the Pleiades!!! I have been making a study of fixed stars so that was quite an omission. Unfortunately, I was relying on memory when checking the degrees. As its now 00 Gemini I just looked there forgetting about the effects of precession. Too much horary vs natal!
While the standard 'something to cry' about interpretation of this star is quite helpful I doubt it would have helped any of us identify what he did. In contrast I have found that the Babylonian and Vedic lore around this star cluster are amazingly reflective of his military background! I will post this up later if anyone is interested.

Thanks again.

Mark

MarkC wrote:Hello RC,



One thing I would not interpret quite the same is the 'protection' the person seemed to have. Most traditionalists would see Jupiter on the angle like that as actually in the 1st house not the 12th.

Thanks again.

Mark

ahh, but there was more than just Jupiter. He had all the benefics there. Sun and Venus as well.

Glad you felt it worthwhile.

RC

I said there were some stunning links between the symbolism of the star cluster known as the Pleiades from Mesopotania and India and this chart.

See if you agree:

Mesopotanian

?The regents of the star cluster (Pleiades) are a group of battle-inciting deities called the Seven Gods, in Akkadian the Sebetti. They are found in the entourage of Erra the god of war, plague and death?.the star cluster is one of the most frequently used names for the violent and malevolent planet Mars. The attribution is primarily derived dfrom the Sebetti being attendant upon the god Erra-Nergal, who is closely associated with Mars in astrology? (Babylonian Star-Lore-Gavin White)

Indian
In ancient India the star cluster called the Pleiades was associated with six goddesseses.

?

?they acted as nurses to an infant God called Skanda or Karttikeya who was born in the Pleiades and grew up to become the leader of the armies of the gods. In Hindu astrology , this god is associated with the planet Mars the archetype of the warrior.

As might be expected , given the Martian symbolism associated with this ?Star of Fire? , Pleidian people are fiery characters with intense, powerful emotions. This mansion is said to be governed or ?ruled? by the ancient Vedic god Agni, who is the symbol of fire itself. The name Krittka, however, is related to the name Karttikeya, the God Skanda but also signifies a razor.. and indeed the razor is the principal symbol of mansion 3. These natives are sharp and cutting? ( Mansions of the Moon-Kenneth Johnson)

Just a shame I missed the star! It will be interesting to check these associations out in other charts.

MarkC wrote:Hello RC,

One thing I can see I overdid was the essential dignities at the expense of the accidental dignities. That is a useful lesson for natal study. Also the natural significations of the planets are always important. Jupiter as ruler of the 7th on the ASC did support his 'good' wife. I got too hung up on the planet in detriment.
Mark

Interestingly, Jupiter was in the sign of the Virgin! And yeah, she was.

MarkC wrote: 12th house was of course the house of secret enemies and with 20/20 vision that was always a possibility. However, the 7th as in its role as open enemies was something that didn't occur to me.
Mark

Not just open enemies but war as well. We just aren't used to looking for that in a natal reading. You always need several confirmations tho before coming to a conclusion and his chart had them.



RC

Yes, retrospective chart analysis is always so clear cut!

MarkC wrote:Yes, retrospective chart analysis is always so clear cut!

Yes, reading it in hindsight, you could see all the confirmations. I'm not saying I would have put it together had I not know him.

RC