Hello. Ema, isn't the Sun actually applying to conjunction with her significator rather than moving away? Wouldn't that indicate he would be moving toward her?

Regarding the Moon VOC-I am under the impression of only using the 7 classical planets but a question I have frequently pondered is do the outer planets have the capacity to change the VOC condition?

I'm also trying to figure out why Algaya was considering Venus and Mars in this queston? Is that because Venus typically symbolizes the woman?

Hiimnotcool YOU ARE RIGHT Very cool. I was sure I checked that twice! And I wonder why noone reminded me of my slip sooner :-( I guess it would be wise to avoid VOC Moon charts after all There IS the applying conjunction, which does complicate matters of course ;-( Theoretically, now, the relationship could evolve, but I'm not very happy with the chart -or not very comfortable, should I say... There's the trine with Jupiter, collecting light even if it needn't, because the Sun applies to Saturn anyway, but this suggests involvement through the job (are they co-workers or meet through their jobs?), or there's a third party. There's also the problem with significators, since whole of Pisces (which is, together with Aquarius, a sign of short ascension so we have to take that into account) is in the 1st and Virgo in the 7th, which would make Jupiter her co-ruler and Mercury his co-ruler, AND the planetary hour ruler is not harmonious.... I give up :-) It would be much better if aglaya told us what she knows - didn't you say Agalaya that

Now, it's not as if I can't find that answer without horary

looks like you'll have to now and I hope we'll all learn something from this case. Stay in touch!

Ema

" If, for example, significators would apply to each other from unfortunate houses or if they were debilitated, the situation could resolve in such a way that the tow parties came together but would soon regret it... And the VOC Moon could, in such a case, show that the situation will not proceed as planned... "

have you been reading my mind?
I was reading one article online about a month ago where the author said that even with aspect (sextile and trine) and bad receptions, this could work as opposition. Yes, the matter will come to pass but then either separate or regret. I could not put this together until you explained it.

thanks!
CD

Oh, you're so cute and helpful. And I'm not the only one pleasently surprised here, my computer also froze when I was trying to post this message for the first time!

Ok, now, the sun and Saturn were in an applying conjuction but I was the one to make the mistake (and repeat it)- first of all, I completely forgot that the chart does not stay frozen once the link to it is pasted but each time I make changes at A-dienst, the one who clicks the link sees a different chart (so, i guess, Ema clicked che chart I made for,say,5th of September when the conjuction was the matter of the past). And then, I didn't mention that when I replied the last time- sorry! The acctual time was 2nd Sept, 18:47 (CET), 13e50, 44n52.

Now, as for the Venus (I can't find that Mars),hiimnotcool, I've red that Venus is always co-significator of a female Querent/Quesited while Sun is male co-significator. That's why I mentioned Venus too!

Then, what I meant by "Now, it's not as if I can't find that answer without horary , I really did think the time will show but seems like it's going to take a little longer than I thought, beacause from this point of view, Ema, we're still nowhere! Nothing is really happening, I even think the contacts have minimized in the last 7 days (Don't think it's going to be a week, after all ) Right now- nothing is happening, but you'll most certainly be informed about the development of this situation (not as if it' s the matter of life and death but it is getting quite soapy ).

So, for now, I can't tell you how the things have evolved 'cause it's been a frozen field so far but I am curious- why would you say that jupiter might mean we're co-workers when it is positioned in his 5th house (or is it some other logic?). Because, you're right about that, we are co-workers (a kind of, met through the job, anyway and see each other there and only there- never, ever met him anywhere else)? Of course, unless, you're also right about the third party! (or a third-party-co-worker enemy - situation )
There is a rather specific situation that made me anxious enough to cast the chart for this question in the forst place ( I do enjoy not-knowing the end, after all) and, in a very specific way, my doubts were concerning a potential-third party, but, I'' leave that for later, it's too confusing now.

Anyway, what I wanted to ask was-

1. is the Moon really in VOC even when applying to trine Ascendant before leaving the sign (is that also considered to be a valid aspect in horary astrology)?

and 2. can you explain this a little for me, please

Thanx, guys! All of you!

which is, together with Aquarius, a sign of short ascension

Oh, yes,. I also hope we'll learn here - the reality is happening in front of my eyes, it should'nt be to hard to check the reading!

I've also red somewhere that, when the ruler of the house concerning the question (in this case 7th) is Sun and when it's positioned so close to the L1, it might be the sign of Querent being "blinded" by the situation.Since, in this case, the Querent is also the #Astrologer"- maybe it was meant for others to solve this chart-situation!

I still think the Moon needs to aspect an actual planetary body to negate the VOC. But my question still remains is if an outer planet counts as an aspect for the Moon. I get the feeling that they don't and only the 7 classical planets are considered.

Regardless, the situation still looks promising to me just because of the applying aspect. It would like there would be maybe some delay of some sort, though. (By the way, I say that because I use whole sign houses) and the two significators are succedent. By all means interpret this how you will.

But still, I can't get over the conjunction. It is almost immediate! Good call on Ema's part to notice the work-related meeting situation. Thumbs up!


I still am new to horary and have only been doing it for 2 weeks so take what I say with a grain of salt also. The other posters are much more knowledgeable than I am and most likely see things that aren't so obvious to me yet.

But if the significators are the Sun and Saturn and they're about to form a close conjunction, doesn't that mean they're combust?

And if they're combust, isn't that a negative aspect?

Not when the Sun is a significator.

Ok, is Saturn in Virgo peregrine? And isn't the Sun in Virgo peregrine? According to Lee Lehman, planets that are peregrine lack the will to function, no matter how positive their aspects. What do you think?

I am curious- why would you say that jupiter might mean we're co-workers when it is positioned in his 5th house (or is it some other logic?).

Hi aglaya, Jupiter rules the 10th house in the chart, that's why I guessed that it's the working relationship (or surroundings) which connects the two of you. But since one planet can reveal two or even more facts about the situation, you're right in regarding the turned 5th in this context too. It might be true that he's involved with someone else, especially because the Sun is "blinding" you as someone said - you (Saturn) are actually combust here As for the rest, meaning the application of debilitated (or peregrine) planets via conjunction or harmonious aspects, to which voyagergirl and CD have already referred, I'll open another thread because this thread is actually about reception, so we've digressed quite far from it already , but it surely deserves attention, and I'm going to post an interesting example concerning this.

I'm really looking forward to that thread, it can get quite confusing trying to put all these things together (experience, experience...), adn, from what I gather, other's seem to be confused or at least unsecure about the very same things I am. Which comes first, what's most important etc...

My chart remains a mistery for now- we've either got a huge nothing here (debilitated planets in a conjuction) or a sign of a potential contact-relationship that might end up being a complete disaster (which makes one wish the first answer was the correct one ).

But, there's another thing- I gave a friend of mine, an astrologer, a glimpse of this whole chart-situation and she was very persistant in one oppinion- as long as the Saturn is in the 7th, the astrologer does not see things clearly. That is not the case, she says, only in situations where the question is concerning 7th field of the chart and the Querent is the Astrologer but, than again, Saturn being me and being so close to the Sun (him) makes me blind enough to see things clearly both in life and in the chart which brings us back to the begining- that chart or, should I say, the interpretation of the chart should not be considered valid. (L1 receiving so many Venus and Saturn dignities just add to it! - not surewho/what I'm actually concerned about at the moment) The VOC and the Burned way are just contributing to her theory that the chart should be dismissed and that the only way I could (or could have) got a good answer, would be to ask someone else and let him cast the chart for the time and place he understood the question. Since i insisted and asked her- if I'm not the one to give a good answer because of the Saturn position, what if someone else would try to solve the enigma, she said- Give it a try, but I promisse he/she would make an obvious mistake at the very begining. If that happens, I'm right, if not- you win! The moment she said that I remembered Ema and separating-applying aspect "mistake" and started laughing. Therefore, maybe I should have asked someone else. But, as I said, I was trying to practice here.

But, as for the outer planets, she told me another thing- she had been refusing to use them for quite a long time but than she realized that every single chart (without exeption) casted for the question over which the Querent had been crying or about the question that made him/her extremely anxious, had Neptune either very close to the Asc. or in some other way showing rough period/feeling. Than she decided she'd start paying more attention to outer planets as well (modern times, modern planets, she says). I'm just mentioning this because hiimnotcool was wandering about those planets and is a begginer just like me so, the oppinion of one of you with more experience than us on this topic might be helpful!

aglaya
But, as for the outer planets, she told me another thing- she had been refusing to use them for quite a long time but than she realized that every single chart (without exeption) casted for the question over which the Querent had been crying or about the question that made him/her extremely anxious, had Neptune either very close to the Asc. or in some other way showing rough period/feeling. Than she decided she'd start paying more attention to outer planets as well (modern times, modern planets, she says). I'm just mentioning this because hiimnotcool was wandering about those planets and is a begginer just like me so, the oppinion of one of you with more experience than us on this topic might be helpful!

When you study Lilly and see how precise he was without outer planets it should strengthen your faith in developing your skills without outer planets, imo. Good luck in your studies! Enjoy!