RC. In reflecting upon your stance and your credibility with various horary institutions of learning I concede you *MAY* be correct in your veiw of the 7th being Obama as he is NOT your senator yet a U.S. Senator.

If the 7th is Obama as you conclude, then we must note that Mars as his ruler is greatly debilitated being in essential detriment in Libra.

It Conjuncts the Fixed Star ZANIAH according to:

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:c9 ... d=14&gl=us

"Zaniah Order, congeniality, lovable nature, refinement, honour 4? Libra 31 Very Fortunate Mercury/ Venus "

So that softens the blow of the detriment ruler somewhat and does show his honor by being a Senator as well as his refinement among men despite any race or standards.

*If* the 7th is Obama, his election is the horary's 11th, with AQU/Saturn being combust of the Sun: another debilitated varible.

As the Sun is applying to a cjt., yet it will not perfect as the moon(critical degree representing querant) will result frustrating that cjt., as it perfects before the Sun makes the aspect. Typically a Negative interpretation.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... ossary.htm

"Frustration. In horary, when one significator applies within the moiety of orbs to the other significator by conjunction or aspect, but before the perfection is completed the slower of the two perfects a conjunction or aspect with a third planet. This is one of the rules of imperfection and often leads to a negative answer."

Again under the fixed stars website, Saturn, Lord of the 11th, another negatve outcome factor, for the election is at:

"Zosma Keen intellect, depression, fearful, unhappy, feels restricted, loss in childhood; egotism; prophetic ability (with Coxa: "Kua, the Oracle") 11? Virgo 16 Fortunate Saturn/ Venus "

RC, this is tricky as the Frustration as I understand usaully means a negative answer. But based on your approach I'd say he will not win. This is excluding Faces, Terms, and Contra-scions and Anti-Scions which must be weighed.

Clinton Soule

Clinton Soule wrote:RC. In reflecting upon your stance and your credibility with various horary institutions of learning I concede you *MAY* be correct in your veiw of the 7th being Obama as he is NOT your senator yet a U.S. Senator.

If the 7th is Obama as you conclude, then we must note that Mars as his ruler is greatly debilitated being in essential detriment in Libra.

It Conjuncts the Fixed Star ZANIAH according to:

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:c9 ... d=14&gl=us

"Zaniah Order, congeniality, lovable nature, refinement, honour 4? Libra 31 Very Fortunate Mercury/ Venus "

So that softens the blow of the detriment ruler somewhat and does show his honor by being a Senator as well as his refinement among men despite any race or standards.

*If* the 7th is Obama, his election is the horary's 11th, with AQU/Saturn being combust of the Sun: another debilitated varible.

As the Sun is applying to a cjt., yet it will not perfect as the moon(critical degree representing querant) will result frustrating that cjt., as it perfects before the Sun makes the aspect. Typically a Negative interpretation.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... ossary.htm

"Frustration. In horary, when one significator applies within the moiety of orbs to the other significator by conjunction or aspect, but before the perfection is completed the slower of the two perfects a conjunction or aspect with a third planet. This is one of the rules of imperfection and often leads to a negative answer."

Again under the fixed stars website, Saturn, Lord of the 11th, another negatve outcome factor, for the election is at:

"Zosma Keen intellect, depression, fearful, unhappy, feels restricted, loss in childhood; egotism; prophetic ability (with Coxa: "Kua, the Oracle") 11? Virgo 16 Fortunate Saturn/ Venus "

RC, this is tricky as the Frustration as I understand usaully means a negative answer. But based on your approach I'd say he will not win. This is excluding Faces, Terms, and Contra-scions and Anti-Scions which must be weighed.

Clinton Soule

Hi Clinton: Looks like a very thorough analysis. Interesting that you do not consider his 10th at all.

I'd like to hear your analysis if the chart were turned with 11th rising. Isn't that the house you originally thought should represent BO?

Not considering astrology: Right now with little more than 30 days to go, it doesn't look good for McCain. BO's pulled ahead in most polls. Of course a month is an eternity in politics. But right now, despite the reading of this chart, its hard to see how McCain pulls it off!

RC

I took a new look at this chart as a snap shot of the time of the elections.
Tenth house ruler Saturn in a very debilitated state is in th 4th house signifing our mortagage crisis now. Jupiter in it's own sign in the 8th (other people's money) trining Saturn can be showing a good rescue package coming. Plus 4th house moving into Leo ruler Sun in 11th is moving in a better direction, no?

With 10th house moving into Aquarius and keeping the same ruler Saturn, might this not indicate a change but different Republican ruler?

RC: Can't count McCain out even though I agree it looks bleak for him. He is the last guy Republicans would have had as their leader. Yet, here he is!
By debmccarter at 2008-09-12

kali wrote:

RC: Can't count McCain out even though I agree it looks bleak for him. He is the last guy Republicans would have had as their leader. Yet, here he is!

Hi Kali:

Yes, he does seem to do well as the underdog. Remember when his campaign bus ran out of gas? It looked like he was going to lose. He even had to loan himself money. But it sure looks bleak for him now again.

RC

kali wrote:
With 10th house moving into Aquarius and keeping the same ruler Saturn, might this not indicate a change but different Republican ruler?

That sounds like a reasonable interpretation to me.

RC

Hi Clinton: Looks like a very thorough analysis. Interesting that you do not consider his 10th at all. RC

Rc, I'm not even going to claim to understand everything about horary, but in my Horary on Bush'e re-election on HORARY HOUR I did look at the 10th as an hypothesis of him remaining in office, but did not mention it in the forum. To my limited knowledge using the 10th is not an horary technique used by the Ancients and Lilly: of those credible horary artists this forum is founded upon thier works. But it looked to have a possible corelation.

I'd like to hear your analysis if the chart were turned with 11th rising. Isn't that the house you originally thought should represent BO? RC

RC, I did give a brief analysis using the 11th on page four of this discussion dated September 24th, 2008, and I excluded the zero degree Moon, the querant, in a critical degree; and also in the 11th analysis the lord of the 5th from the 11th. Also I made no mention of the fixed stars, although they were mentioned somewhat in my prior post.

Although the arguments that do not pertain to your horary are highly relevant that others are posting, they are not the subject of YOUR HORARY. I believe Deborah Holding made mention of this recently of non-topic posts on the FORUM page for the good of all on staying on topic discussions!

In other words, excluding the Terms, Faces, and Contr-scions and Anti-scions, based upon the Moon's applying sextile to Mars(which Anthony Louis says Lord of the matter is right about 85% of the time). I'm assuming Loius has some credible documentation from Lilly or the Ancients to make this claim. In other words he could win despite the debilatated positions.

It would be great if some of the other participants to this forum would analize the Faces, Terms, and Scions as a contributationg indicator for your horary!

Clinton Soule

Clinton:
The subject is "Will Obama win?" RC also posted Obama's chart alongside the election day chart to analyze Obama's chances. So the focus is not just RC's horary.

In my defense,

Kali

Hi all!

i couldnt miss out oin this so i am posting
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200810 ... tico/14219

kinda funny
let's see what happens between Palin and Biden

CD

Kali,

As you may be aware I'm new here and there is a Mercury Rectrograde going on which typically causes over sensitivity and misunderstandings even amongst adept astrologers as I've seen.

Many of you like myself are possibly on other forums and some are heavily moderated as the owner does not need friction episodes and others are loose and you wonder if the moderator left town.

The last thing I want to do is destroy or hamper the flow of this forum. If Deb and her moderators abide by related topics in a post * it's fine by me* it's just that experience on other sites taught me to rigidly stay on topic.

And as I said your post was related as it is concerned with an Obama win.

Last thing I want to do is disrupt the discussion,

Clinton Soule

Clinton Soule wrote:
Last thing I want to do is disrupt the discussion,

Clinton Soule

Hi Clinton: I'm sure no one took offense.

Actually I had invited Kali to post her chart near the beginning of this thread.
But I don't think they (moderators) worry with people going off topic that much unless maybe the original poster objects. I've never seen much of such warnings or corrections here.

See you at the debate tonight!

RC

Well, I understand the meaning of the Moon in this chart now. Thank you Deb for your insights in the "Will Gwen Ifill step aside?" Moon in the 8th speaks to obsession over this issue. The Moon just moved from a sextile with Mercury in the 10th. This question was asked while discussing politics with a friend and we decided to ask a horary question.

Moon in Sag. can typify a person who is unsettled in mind and body and physical activity can redirect this energy. I had decided to join a gym and the houses I clean have never been cleaner. Moon is moving into it's detriment and I need to take care of being supersensitive, etc.

Asc. ruler Venus in Aries in detriment shows restlessness, in the 12th Venus has accidental exaltation speaks to my enjoying secluded places and helps to settle me.

What I'm trying to say is sincerely asking a mundane question tells everything about the root of who you are in regards to this question and the most important aspect.

Cheers!
By debmccarter at 2008-09-12[/quote]

RC and forum, in view of Deb's input on the McCain election post we know that the 7th is the canidate if you aren't in favor of him, where the first is the canidate you like. As RC likes Obama for President, the first becomes Obama.

Venus as lord of the Ascendant and Obama is in the 5th(election), and in Essential Fall in Virgo. Also the Asc. ruled by Venus is in Accidental Detriment as lord of the first.

As the 5th is ruled by the Sun and in the 5H about to cjt Saturn it would look like an Obama win, but here comes the Moon in a Critical degree making a Frustration aspect as it will join with the Sun upon changing sign before the Sun perfects the cjt. to Saturn. As stated earlier this is typically a nagative indicator of prohibition from horary lore.

This seems very close and I think the answer is centralized upon interpreting if the Moon's Frustration aspect will cancel out the win.

Clinton Soule