I don?t think I have ever seen any good come out of the judgement of a chart with a late ascendant like this. I wonder if anyone else can contradict that by their own experiences? That doesn?t necessarily mean that the chart is unreliable, but it is offering a warning that you might regret getting involved in this difficult matter.

Hi Deb, I wouldn't disregard this chart on account of the late ascendant. I'm wary with such charts when asc. degree is in a sign of short ascensions, and if it's beyond 28, but not on the other side of zodiac, like here, especially because the Scorpio ascendant perfectly reflects the nature of the question. Besides, Mars is the planetary hour ruler as you have noted. This all seems as if the querent has been pondering over his worry for a long time, and has finally (late asc.) made a decision to post a question. He wouldn't be likely to ask a question concerning the hiv related disease when asc. would be Saggitarius, right? Scorpio's much more appropriate, and ruler Mars in the 12th. concerning a possibility of his having "a secret enemy" confirms this. Otherwise, as you of course know, asc. in a late degree usually shows that some sort of change or transition in soon to follow (especially asc. in a cardinal sign), but nothing more - IMO, the change can be good or bad, depending on the nature of the next sign ie pair of signs (asc/desc. axis).

I have some problems with this kind of questioning:

1 - Ethical dillema when you ask about third parties. Yes, I know, people will say mars rising has the right to know if a sexual partner has HIV. But it can be asked, and so answered or not. In horary it will be always answered, disregarding the will of quesited.

1a - let?s imagine for a moment that querent was in reality one of those internet teenagers and was really just trying to use horary to start a gossip. Does the situation change ? How are the rights of the quesited person ?

2 - Practicality: as Astrea said, blood tests are easily available.
2a - "he blood work would not turn up any results until 6 months", yes but condons are pretty damn effective. There are many couples who are positive/negative and stays that way forever.

3 - Advice x commanding: "These sorts of divinatory techniques ought to clarify our better judgement so that we feel more confident about the decisions we make"
Agree ! - YOU are the one who decides to do anything. You can?t do anything "against your will" and then blame the I ching !

4 - Default option
querent didn?t make clear if he has ANY reason at ALL to think that quesited has HIV, or at least that quesited has more probability to have HIV than any other person not tested. If quesited doesn?t have any form of extreme abnormal behaviour, the default option is NO, and we should have to look for extreme signs of contamination.

I think the forum sort of drawn a picture of a promiscuous, drug addict person when the words "HIV" and "trust issues" appeared. But if we don?t have solid information about the situation (a possible contamination of sexual partner), I agree with Andrew that this horary doesn?t follow the criteria of a radical question.

Hi Yuzuru, the full moon has blown again, huh

As for radicality of the chart, Andrew has made a little mistake (so it appears to me and Deb) of thinking that it's Saturn hour and not Mars's, and that was his reason to say that the chart does not appear radical. Are we OK with that now?

Otherwise, if you carefully read the chart you'd have noted that David (the querent) spoke of the other person as of "him" so it's obvious that we have a couple of males here, but I do hope that you wouldn't call that "a form of extreme abnormal behaviour" That would be some sort of ....ism (sorry I don't really know what to put in front of the ism but there must be a word for that;-) and I don't think that such prejudices contribute to the friendly atmosphere in the group.

And as for the "third party"... There's hardly a horary without a "third party" involved - people are always asking about other people, so what's your problem here, tell me, I just can't get your reasoning? Is it because of the possibility of an illness? Shortly ago, I posted my horary asking if my son in likely to get ill with scarlet fever - would he need to be offended by my curioisty, or should I have received his permission to ask, or what? Just wondering

Ema, you seem to have a very sarcastic tone, I don?t really know why, but if you think it is appropriate, by all means, be yourself.

About the couple of males, I think you are not reading my post with proper consideration. Or maybe you are so sure that I was saying something that you probably can only hear that. Of course, it may be that I couldn?t express myself properly in english. If that was the case, I say I am sorry to David, that wasn?t my intention.

About your son, ethical considerations are just that, ethical considerations. Some people are glad to disregard them as "obvious". Other think they are blind moralism, etc. You want to do horaries about everything and everyone, by all means do it. I am not the horary monitor. But I am, and always will, express my feeling of disconfort, whenever ethical issues appear in the forum, disregarding whatever overtones it may arise between the members who think they already have it figure it out.

Best regards

I think that due to the seriousness of this question, the question should be treated professionally and since either the querent or artist is questioning his/her ability to judge the chart the matter should have been taken elsewhere. I don't think this is a practice question.

Hello David,

Deb has done her magic on the chart, along with other illustrious contributors . Normally that is enough, but I think I noticed some things that might help.

Looking at your chart, I think it is safe to assume that it is a little radical. The hour ruler is the same as the lord of the Asc (and appropriately it is a rising Mars); I would take its cadent position by the dynamic cusps to indicate your hesitancy to take action in this situation, even as the chart shows (by whole sign) that you are in the driver's seat.

That the rulers of the 1st and 7th are also rulers of their own respective 6th houses isn?t good; I don?t know if it is enough to say that he has the virus (though Venus? last aspect was a sextile with Saturn, so maybe he has something?), but it may be enough that you really don?t trust him. And, really, why would you want to be in a relationship with someone you feel you cannot trust?

Mars and Venus are heading toward conjunction, but Venus leaves Scorpio before the conjunction can perfect, so I don?t think you will get involved with him. The Moon?s next aspect is with Jupiter, who has nothing to do with the 7th, but I?m not sure who or what he represents.

You probably should just take a long moment to think about who it is you're getting mixed up with.

yuzuru wrote:I have some problems with this kind of questioning:

1 - Ethical dillema when you ask about third parties. Yes, I know, people will say mars rising has the right to know if a sexual partner has HIV. But it can be asked, and so answered or not. In horary it will be always answered, disregarding the will of quesited.

I'm an astrologer too. I know about ethics, and I would never have made such a post without permission. I barely feel comfortable looking at the charts of celebrities, without their consent, for any reason.

Anyway, He asked me if I could look at his chart to see health matters. He has a superior square from transiting Pluto to his natal Jupiter, which is in Pisces, which is his 6th house. I'm not sure if Pluto is making him sick, or making him concerned about illness. He is aware that I may present his chart to my peers. This is not my usual forum, so I'm sorry for jumping in with such a Plutonic topic.

2 - Practicality: as Astrea said, blood tests are easily available.
2a - "he blood work would not turn up any results until 6 months", yes but condons are pretty damn effective. There are many couples who are positive/negative and stays that way forever.

I agree with this, and it may be a Plutonic passage that I am being steered toward, but at this early point, I would rather avoid it altogether. However, I've set some rules, that we must become friends first, and that I have to be able to trust him. If a relationship develops out of that, and I did have true love for him, and he was positive, I would just have to deal with it.

3 - Advice x commanding: "These sorts of divinatory techniques ought to clarify our better judgement so that we feel more confident about the decisions we make"
Agree ! - YOU are the one who decides to do anything. You can?t do anything "against your will" and then blame the I ching !

My better judgment is clouded by negative emotions right now, which is why I turned to the Yi. It has never failed me, and having consulted on several occasions, regarding whether I should give him a second chance, I was told to do so, and even told the details surrounding it.

I'm not blaming the Yi. I trust it. There must be something necessary for me to gain out of this.

Deb wrote:Andrew, I?m not sure why you said that the hour-ruler is Saturn. From what I can tell it is Mars.

Slip of pen, I meant Jupiter. I should have been in bed at that time of the day
The Sun is 12 degrees from the cusp of the 12th house, but 14 degrees from the cusp of the 11th - therefore I go with Jupiter. At any rate the hour will be on the cusp of Jupiter/Mars.

Andrew J. Bevan wrote:I think that due to the seriousness of this question, the question should be treated professionally and since either the querent or artist is questioning his/her ability to judge the chart the matter should have been taken elsewhere. I don't think this is a practice question.

**Sigh**

Hi Andrew,

I really did want this to be a practice question, and I appreciate everybody's effort to get a determination out of the chart. I really just wanted some tips, such as "look at what the planet in the 11th is doing, and go from there," or something to that extent. I think that since it appears to be such a heavy question (which it's really not so heavy, in my opinion), that everybody has kindly jumped on board and started delineating.

I'm fine with the determinations, and they are appreciated. I will be spending the day going through the methods by which each person has come to the determination, and hopefully be able to back track from there.

I was quite hesitant to post here, because I was afraid that this would happen. I have been wanting to start posting on this forum for about two years, but haven't really known how to go about it.

I'm not looking for free readings; I'm looking for a place to discuss and learn horary astrology with competent people.

David

I'm looking for a place to discuss and learn horary astrology with competent people.

You will definitely get that here.

No offence intended. It was just the reflection that the practice of any trade or art begins with simple tasks. There's a difference between changing the tyres on a car to diagnosing motor problems. I just felt that you were getting into the deep end first. A sound practice of horary comes from gaining confidence in answering easy questions, or where the answer is not a matter of life or death. Hopefully the student of medicine doesn't have to answer questions like this on his first day at work.

David wrote:I was quite hesitant to post here, because I was afraid that this would happen. I have been wanting to start posting on this forum for about two years, but haven't really known how to go about it.

Oh, but please do! I don't recognize the way the chart is drawn, but I really do think you should continue posting charts and also participate more in the debate regarding other issues, too.

Hi Deb, I wouldn't disregard this chart on account of the late ascendant.

Hi Ema ? I didn?t disregard the chart. In fact I don?t think I?ve ever disregarded a chart. But that late ascendant is a warning for the astrologer, and very often I see it as an indication to reserve judgement, which is not the same as suggesting that a judgement cannot or must not be made. When I have been the astrologer I have always been able to realise what the late ascendant relates to. Clearly, this chart is descriptive.

I also don?t see an ethical dilemma in the asking of this question. Speaking from my own perspective as a working horary astrologer, I believe I have a cosmic right to ask any question my mind and soul considers important to me, and if I was in this situation I would definitely ask this question, just as I would probably turn to horary if I had a reason to believe a lover was cheating on me - I wouldn?t expect to get his permission for that But then there is a big difference between asking and answering my own question for my own satisfaction, and posting charts up on a public forum ? so maybe this is where we need to be especially careful. I think David took a sensible approach, and he said early on that he felt it best to not make too much out of this chart because he wasn?t sure that his intention was placed where it should be here. All the messy discussion that followed is ours

Anyway David ? obviously you can see that we are all full of opinions and eager to encourage you in horary. Don?t be nervous about posting again!

Deb