Hi Clinton:
Here is a repost of my horary. Reading Frawley's ideas on elections I discovered what may be another aspect to support Obama's win. He says the Moon is of extreme importance in horaries about elections. Whoever gets the aspect from the Moon wins if there is no aspect look to receptions. The Democrats 10th house Cancer is ruled by the Moon and their signif. Mars is in Moon's term. He does go on to say receptions may not be decisive. "A void of course Moon is testimony of the status quo being preserved. The Moon in this chart seems to be void of course. But the Moon in Sagittarius might not be so bad.

I still feel the chart shows Obama winning.

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....Reading Frawley's ideas on elections I discovered what may be another aspect to support Obama's win. He says the Moon is of extreme importance in horaries about elections. Whoever gets the aspect from the Moon wins if there is no aspect look to receptions. The Democrats 10th house Cancer is ruled by the Moon and their signif. Mars is in Moon's term. He does go on to say receptions may not be decisive. "A void of course Moon is testimony of the status quo being preserved. The Moon in this chart seems to be void of course. But the Moon in Sagittarius might not be so bad.

I still feel the chart shows Obama winning. KALI

Like you have said, with the Moon in Sag, the Moon can act even if VOC according to Bonatus and other Ancients. The Moon is in Accidental Fall and Saturn is in very bad shape for the Republicans as it is in essental detriment and accidental fall. Where the ruler of the Republicans is in Accidental Exaltation, while the ruler of the Democrats is in Accidental Exaltation.

That VOC Moon really makes this one rough to judge: possibly because it was so far before the election and not enough had been formulated by the choices of canidates.

Looking at the strength's of both partys it looks like the Democrats have it.

Clinton Soule

But I am rooting for McCain/Palin. I am very much against Obama for many reasons and thus when I asked the question, those feelings were strong.

I think this was quite obvious from the line of your questioning, even before you revealed your preferences. You're not as subtle as that!

But as a die-hard Obama fan, and speaking for myself, I don't hate you. Politics is a petty thing to arouse 'hate' in other people, methinks.

Anyway, the astrology is far too gripping and interesting, whoever wins.

GH

Gunhilde wrote:
I think this was quite obvious from the line of your questioning, even before you revealed your preferences. You're not as subtle as that!

Where? Do tell!

Gunhilde wrote: But as a die-hard Obama fan, and speaking for myself, I don't hate you. Politics is a petty thing to arouse 'hate' in other people, methinks.

Anyway, the astrology is far too gripping and interesting, whoever wins.

GH

Hi Gunhilde:
So you're one of the koolaid drinkers eh?
(kidding....)

I was being facisous about people hating me for not supporting BO. But people are vandalising property and stealing each others yard signs around where I live so we've pretty much decided to keep our political views to ourselves here. And I did want an objective analysis of this chart, though it may be difficult not only for me but for anyone here who strongly supports either candidate. That always makes it more difficult as we tend to look for the good and ignore the bad for our guy.

The chart will probably be very obvious after the election. I would prefer to concentrate on the natals but now there are doubts surrounding McCain's true birth time. (This new 6:25 PM time was probably put out there by Obama operatives) - <again, kidding ya'll> So all we really have is BO's.

RC

The chart will probably be very obvious after the election.

This is, believe it or not, the singular reason I maintain a slight scepticism about astrology, no matter how long I study it or how much I love it and 'believe' in it. Too many 'post-event' analyses: "Oh! yes! We saw that coming, didn't we, because of this aspect or that," even though the aspect had been there all along and no-one had batted an eyelash.

GH

Hi all here,

I have been reading the complete thread here and much has been written so far. I think that personal ideas don't matter here. Just try to be cool and focus on the astrological subject.

Now I am not really a horary astrologer, I've doing natals the last 25 years and have u HUGE pile of paperwork, databases, etc. This I used for studies on certain subjects regarding natal horoscopes.

I can imagine that "somebody" picks up the idea of beginning a study making horaries for presidential elections using just ONE kind of question, like RC started the thread with his question "Will Obama win the elections".
Then define some alternatives for the significator of the presidential candidate: is it ruler-7 (the other), ruler-5 (elections are a lottery), ruler-11 (he is a senator), maybe even ruler-1. the one we are not in contact with like Lilly used. Define a limited number of significators.
Make analyses for these significators, write them down and note your outcome and compare with the final result.

You can do this for all kinds of interesting presidents in the world. It seems to me that after some time (2-3 years) you will get a nice database with real investigations and data to look at objectively.
It will be the only way to make some outlines for future questions like these.
You can be right in your analysis here for Obama, but it might be coincidence. Many case will give you a better feeling about the subject.

So far my limited opinion, good luck here.... John

JohnLi wrote: You can be right in your analysis here for Obama, but it might be coincidence. Many case will give you a better feeling about the subject.

So far my limited opinion, good luck here.... John

Hi John:

What so impresses me about Lilly's readings is the depth he goes into a chart. One simple question and he answers 4 or 5 questions with a time span of many years. So imo, you just need to go deeper into a specific chart to see other events surrounding your question and their culmination. This can help determine whether your judgement is more than coincidence or not. If events match and your judgement is wrong then maybe you missed the telling aspect to a correct judgement.

I like your idea of making judgements of other elections even in other countries. I'd like to put to test whether a mundane question can be asked through horary.

yuzuru wrote:
But if I take the 7th, mars rules obama. Moon (the people) will apply to sextile mars, Obama wins.

Hi Yuzuru:

I'm assuming you are a student of Frawley. I read this in his book. He states that which ever candidate gets aspected by the moon wins. He doesn't state whether the aspect had to be good or bad.

So according to his analysis which was very brief in the book, since Moon sextiles BO's ruler, Mars, as you say, he wins.

He didn't clarify in the book whether he turns the chart or uses the radical 10th for both candidates (I don't think). So I was a bit unclear how he does that.

But Frawley also talks about the moon being fixed. This chart is interesting because the moon is FIXED. But it is in 00 degrees directly opposing a fixed MC at 1'. If a fixed MC means the party in power stays in power, this seems to be a mixed reading for an Obama win with the moon doing nothing at 00 degrees fixed.

But aside from that, it looks almost like a done deal.

RC

Kali, I forgot to add that if that VOC moon doesn't work as VOC are typically supposed to be 'Moot' according to our icons in horary lore, then doesn't this mean nothings going to happen for your favorites, the Republicans in the 2008 election for President. :,

In other words they will not retain the office of President.

In all my reading about the Moon in Tau, Can, Sag, or Pis, it seems to say '...the Moon Can or May work when VOC in these signs...', not Will Work!

We are talking about if the Repulicans are you favorite according to Deb it's the first house representing that faction or team, one could say.

Clinton Soule

Clinton, any question where change is required, a VOC Moon is a strong negative indicator, suggesting that the issue is going nowhere. In other words, no change of parties. It can be overruled by more compelling testimony, according to Frawley. I think Dems ruler in an angle house is strong testimony.

Another thought, my understanding is the Moon can't be co-ruler of Repub. and Sig of Democrats 10th house cusp also. So, if Moon signfi Repub. the ruler of Dems 10th would become the Sun. (Leo in Dems 10th)

Or, if you give 10th ruler of Dems the Moon, a co-ruler for Repubs. would be Sun. (Sun is exalted and trip with Venus). I don't have a clear reading on which to give the Moon to, any thoughts? A sad aspect of the Moon here is it's moving into it's detriment.

I wonder if I'm reading this correctly, Mars first conj Part of Fortune (win the Presidency?) then opposes Saturn (lose the Presidency?) Their 10th moves from Cancer to Leo. (From Dems to Reps? or Obama to Biden?) Repubs 10th keeps same ruler.

Questions of a mad student of astrology

Hi, RC
I am not exactly a student of Frawley, but yes, I used the concept of his book, it seemed a good aplication.

Ah, if any of the members are really sure that McCain is going to win, it is a good time to bet your money ! In oddschecker.com the odss were close to 7 dollars to every dollar invested ! Apparently the bookmakers are backing Obama

In regards to Mars opposing Saturn and the possiblility he might lose the election after obtaining it, I need to retract that idea. In Considerations of Guido Bonatus there is this....

#18
If there be a Reception, he does not afflict, for reception abates all malice.

#11
The Malevolent planets signify evil and damage and hindrance unless they receive the Signif... forthen they will bridle in their malice and not weaken or hinder him whom they receive, with what aspect soever they behold him...

Yep, nothing against Obama has stuck to Obama.