Good - that clears up any doubt that you would try to 'hedge your bets' on this in hindsight.

timashev wrote:

RC wrote:Well they used the wrong time for McCain's chart so they have a 50/50 shot at being right. McCain's mother has given two times, 9 AM and 11 AM. See article at:
http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/McCainJohn.htm

There are copies of birth certificate on the internet, I rely on them. His documented birth time is 6:25 pm, but it does not fit into events of his life by Primary Directions. The only time that fits is 5:57 pm.

Albert

My father's official birth certificate had wrong day !

The 9 AM and the 11 AM times came from his mother. So it was apparently clearly early in the day/morning. She should know don't you think?

Anyways, I'd like to see how you rectified that chart because when I tried with that PM chart, it was clearly wrong. Whereas the 9 AM time clearly shows his being taken captive in war AND his release as his directed Sun moved into his 1st house.

Having said that, I too thought his chart looked more positive than BO's for a win (using the 9 AM time which I have accepted).

I was relying much on BO's progressed Uranus Squaring his MC in exact degree (28'). But now hearing of his grandmother's death, that could be what that square was showing.

What is far more interesting to me at the moment is the chart of US, directed to today.

Something BIG is about to happen! (1st Black president or HUGE unexpected upset?)

URanus has moved into 10th house and is conjoining Saturn there.

RC

Excuse me for interrupting. I'm new here, having found this site while looking up information on William Lilly.

The source of any information should always be considered, and in this case is extremely suspect. The domain "johnmccain.dominates.us", or "dominates.us" doesn't exist, according to internic.net. The entity who owns / created this site can't be traced. The site seems to have been made for one purpose, to post this birth certificate.

The bio of William Lilly on Skyscript mentions numerous uses of astrology for purposes of political propaganda. Do we think this practice ceased in the 1600's?

If McCain is named the winner, very few in the US will believe it. Even the racists want Obama elected.

Excuse me for interrupting.

Hi Tante, nice of you to join us - we all interupt each other here. No good waiting to be invited to comment.

The bio of William Lilly on Skyscript mentions numerous uses of astrology for purposes of political propaganda. Do we think this practice ceased in the 1600's?

No

Well I thought from the beginning that that birth certificate on McCain was suspect and perhaps put out to lead astrologers astray but kept my paranoia to myself.

RC

Having heard McCain's speach of Concession I think he goes down as one of the best loosers in history, which is what both the US and the world needed at this point in time. Seldom have I seen so much accomplished in so short time. There is this tension and paradigm shift of the opposition between Saturn and Uranus, but also the opportunity of building bridges between worlds - and I think McCain stood up to that challange in a pretty good manner!

I second Steven's last post. Prehaps the topic is too popular to come up with a postulate that has the required virgin purity. When it comes to the question of prediction, is it sufficient to respond to current issues as may be topical in the media, or is it required to recognize both the event and it's probable outfall before it actually breaks the surface.?

I'll jump to things that have been crossing my mind while I have been working on the chart of Iceland. As the nation's financial collapse appeared in the news I found myself asking questions like "Will Norway buy Iceland, or will the countries enter a New Union?" My initial ideas and understanding of the problem lack the quality of being fully developed, but I am trying to get ahead of things. The Norwegians have been pushing more and more financial aid in direction of the bankrupt island since. This seems to be a preferable alternative to a predominant intervening from Russia. In view of T Pluto closing in on the IC, one third of the population of Iceland are considering emigration - and then there is the prospect of some increased seismic activity.

My reflections are slightly off-topic, but it has something to do with the question of at which level astrologers should be probing and delivering to prove their usefulness. Do we have to be careful regarding which predictions hit the wire? Are we responsible for those predictions that the mass-media decide to focus upon? Imagine astrologers in the middle of the of the previous century attempting to predict some of the environmental and financial challanges at the turn of the century - and from the perspective of the prejudices of the time - a 'black' man ruling the most powerful country in the world (and look at Obama - he's great!). Any journalist of the time ear-dropping on some of the paradigm shifts envisioned up ahead would say that astrologers were predicting the end of the world. This is material for another discussion but what sort of jobs are astrologers supposed to have and how are we supposed to use the information we possess?

Well, I was wrong. Four years ago, I looked at the charts of Bush and Kerry to predict a Bush victory (using modern methods). And then I looked at the ingresses: they seemed to show the unlikelihood of a significant change in power until at least 2012. I never looked at the charts of the candidates in this election because I just didn't trust the birth data attributed to Obama or McCain (there seemed to be so many charts to choose from). In hindsight, I should have.

The best analysis and forecast I've read thus far is by Maria Mateus in the journal "Tradition." She nailed it, using traditional methods.

And, of course, the London bookies.

My favorite Analysis was by Bernadette Brady,

here is the article:

http://www.zyntara.com/VisualAstrologyN ... pt2008.htm

she nailed it but good. Granny

PS, I also think if you used just progressions for election day, that McCains chart looked Very unhappy, so another method one might have used. I feel for you, I did the same thing with Kerry, I just couldn't imagine ANYONE voting for W.

Granny

You are right Granny that was a great analysis. And of course I really loved the bit where she said whoever won would govern for three terms.

Noel Tyl held a lecture in Oslo over a decade ago where he said that the US would assist in bringing peace to the Middle East in the years 2010-2014. I cannot recall the exact year. Quite frankly I couldn't quite see what Tyl was talking about at the time, but now - without taking anything in advance - I am all inspired.

I started new a thread titled "Barack Obama's Birth Certificate Data is Invalid": http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3937