Ex neighbor sounds like an open enemy, which is normally house 7, can be 12, if not so open an enemy.

Granny

Ancientstars:

I think we all respect a variety of religous beliefs on this list, but no one wants to believe they are being supernaturally interfered with. The law isn't quite designed to settle the question of supernatual interference, so we go to the stars for answers once again.

Lilly has a twelfth house question about witches. Since your most vital concern in this question seems to be the witch, I think you might simply want to identify your ex-neighbor as a (twelfth house) witch, since that is how you think of her.

You could call her a seventh-house enemy, since I assume you know her name. However, in my opinion you still need the seventh house on your chart for your ex-neighbor, Mr A. You could turn the chart for your move (seventh), then count three for the neighbor Mr A. (ninth), but this seems unnecessarily convoluted. The simplest answer is to presume the witch is the twelfth house and read your former neighbor as seventh.

Your question makes a few assumptions, so first we would want to confirm your assumptions on the chart.

If the witch were interfering with you, she would show some connection to you, (your Ascendant or the Lord of the Ascendant). Lilly also explains how to know the identity of the person who is bewitching you in his twelfth house material. So if it is someone else who is bothering you, that can be cleared up on the chart. The other alternative is that there is actually no supernatural interference, and the chart can make this clear also.

Now that we know whether you are being affected by supernatual interference, and whether it is the witch you suspect who is initiating it, we can look at the relationship between the witch and the former neighbor. If they are in contact, you can decide what you want to do about your own contact with the former neighbor. It might be important to know whether you are actually in any danger of being harmed by staying in touch with your former neighbor before you cross out his name in your address book.

Another way of examining the chart that might help you is to look at the chart from the eighth house of fears: to determine if what you fear (interference from the witch) will come to pass or not.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Best,

Pam

Thank you granny_skot and spirlhelix for detailed comments. It brought much clarity that I have taken your advice and here is the chart and explanation.
My conclusion is "YES Mr A is in contact with the witch." Therefore, it's best to stay away from both of them.

I am Mercury and Moon.

Mr A used to be a workman contracted by the housing association but the contract ended and therefore he should have no business with tenants unless, of course, if anyone is now a friend. He is represented by 7th House Jupiter. Mr A's 11th house (friends) is Saturn and his secret is also Saturn/Uranus.

The witch is my ex-neighbour whom I have no wish to remain in contact. When I first got to know her I didn't suspect anything since she was nice and polite but I have discovered since that she's quite nasty underneath because she told me how she would do certain things so I know her ways. I wish I'd never let her in to my home in the first place but I was fooled by her farcade. She is represented by my 12th house Sun. The 12th house is the sixth from 7th house (Mr A) representing "tenant". She could also belong to the 11th house of Mr A's friend represented by Saturn.

I (mercury) am conjuct with Sun. I am weak and blinded by the witch and her secrecy.
Sun square Asc.

Although Mr A (Jupiter) is not contact with Sun, he is in contact with Saturn and this tells me that the witch is no longer considered as just a tenant but a friend.
Mr A (Jupiter) is weak in his 11th house but this means on the side of his friend.

Saturn in 1st House tells me that Mr A's friend, the witch, is interested in me. Mr A's secret (Uranus) is in the 7th house and with him.

POF is in the 12th house confirming that this is a witchy matter.

ancientstars

I'm not used to Horary charts in Placidus system of houses, i was hoping you'd post the exact time and place of the question unless, of course, it is your choice to use this system.

Now, as for this "witch" word- i gather you just mean a (potentially) mean person or someone who might harm you not real witchcraft, am I right? because, after reading Pam's post I realized it never even crossed my mind you were actually thinking of a real "witch" but I may have been wrong. I'm not really familiar with that, all I can recall is some Astrologers suggesting that the cusp of both 6th and 7th house falling into the same sign can be good signs of such an influence but I've got no evidence whatsoever it is a good way to examine anything of a kind. Finally, that is not the case here either.

My "rational" Asc. is constantly fighting such posibilities though I may be very wrong on occasions but the fact is- it is always easier to declare someone a witch rather than to see the whole reality. People are very powerful beings even without supernatural powers.

But, the fact is, there are other reasons other than witchcraft why 12th house might be very important here . I symphatize with your situation because, living in huge buildings all my life made me see all sorts of things . Neighbors can often be enemies (of the worst kind ) but they're not always secret ones. Now, here are two examples: about 7 years ago, I was living in a rented appartment who's owner had been in a war with the only two neighbors on our floor over 3 m2 (can you believe that?) . They almost moved to the court though there was absolutely nothing any of them could have changed since that part of the floor was actually a part of the hall and the only solution to make them all happy would be to make three bridges over the building and make holes on the roof so that they could use them, that's how absurd it all was. People from one of the appartments were more than kind to me because they were aware I had nothing to do with it all. But the third party was making our lives miserable some times. Now, she was an open enemy though she was not after me but the owner of the place I lived in. None the less, the owner was in a different townt while I had to suffer that angry lady's moods.
On the other hand, some time ago, I spent about 4 years in another rented appartment and there was a young woman next door whom I thought was just a little bit strange. Unfortunatelly, it turned out it was a lot worse than that. Just like you're suggesting, I did suspect of her doing all sorts of things behind my back but I was never sure (or didn't want to believe it). It all eneded with a very ugly scene in front of our building when she attacked me acusing me of spoiling her private life and enetering her appartment through the wall on daily basis. I was so shocked, I didn't even realise how incredible things she was suggesting actually were and even tried to start a rational conversation with her. But, apparently, the priest from the nearby church had seen us, managed to calm her down and than told me she was seriously ill. So, basically, she was my 12th house enemy- not only was I unaware of what she was capable of but her illnes also corelated with the nature of the 12th house.

Now, it's up to you to decide what house is the best to describe the kind of influence that woman has got on your life.

Though Regiomontanus system would set the cusps differently, the ruler of the 12th is around your 4th cusp ie the ebergy of that house was brought to your living. With that ruler being the Sun and so closely conjuct your ruler, you are burned by its presence but perhaps also blinded 8for the question was basically about the possibility of someone else being in contact with her). If you think MrA should be considered a friend ie the Moon- it seems like it is moving away from each of your planets (both L1 and L12). If, on the other hand, you think he should be examined throught the 7th house, the Jupiter (L7), forms no major aspects to the L12 either. It has, as a matter of fact, just recently separated from L12! So, I don't see the connection there.

As for Jupiter/Saturn aspect, it is also a separating one and, though saturn is the ruler of the turned 11th (at least so it seems in Placidus), how do we know it is her? She is Sun, not Saturn!

There is a certain reception of L12 in Jupiter's terms but your ruler, being so close to L12, "enjoys the same treatment for that matter.

The good thing i think is that the Moon is moving away from all these planets. (hopefuly, someone will add a word or two regarding this wide Moon/Pluto conjuction). Having the Moon in your 4th should be clearly saying you have chosen to move away form that place.

Ancientstars,

Here is an excerpt trom Christian Astrology:

<<
If one be Bewitched or not.

If the Lord of the twelfth be in the sixth, or the Lord of the sixth in the twelfth, or the Lord of the ascendant in the twelfth, or the Lord of the twelfth in the ascendant, or the Lord of the eighth in the ascendant, or the Lord of the ascendant in the eighth, in a Question where suspition of Witchcraft is, it is probable; otherwise not so: But the Judgment succeeding I have found more certaine.

It's a received, generall Rule amongst those Artists that know the Cabalisticall Key of Astrologie, that if one Planet be Lord of the ascendant and twelfth house, that then the Sicknesse is more then naturall: when Saturn is Lord of the ascendant and twelfth, and in the twelfth Retrograde, or in the 7th or eighth house in the same condition, and the Moon being Lady of the sixth, apply to Saturn, we constantly judge the party enquiring is Bewitched or Fore-spoken, or that an evill Spirit hath power over him, and that the Infirm will be sore oppressed and disturbed in his Fancy, if not distracted.

If the Lord of the ascendant be Combust, or infortunate in the twelfth, or joyned to the Lord of the twelfth, there may be great feare, that the party enquiring or enquired for is Inchanted or Bewitched, or else some evill Spirits doe hant him.

Rules for Identifying Witches


If the Lord of the ascendant be Lord of the twelfth, and Combust, you must observe of what house the Sun is Lord, and in what Signe and quarter of Heaven he and the Lord of the ascendant are, and judge the Witch liveth that way; describe the Sun Sign as he is, and it represents the person.

If the Lord of the ascendant be Lord of the twelfth, Combust, or
unfortunate by the Lord of the third, it's a Neignbour hath procured some Witch to doe this act, or one of the Kindred; see in what house the Lord of the ascendant fals to be in, and in what house the Lord of the third is in, and infortunates him, you may judge the cause of the malice to proceed from something of the nature of that house; as if either of them be in the sixth, it's for Pastorage of Cattle, or some difference about small Cattle, or for one hiring the others Servants, &c. and in like manner consider all twelve houses.

If the Lord of the ascendant be infortunate, as aforesaid, by the Lord of the fifth, it's some Ale-wife, Nurse, or some drunken companion that occasions it, or hath procured this Witchery.

If the Lord of the tenth afflict the Lord of the ascendant in the twelfth, it's doubtlesse the hand of God, or by some supernaturall power or cause.
If the Lord of the ascendant be an unfortunate Planet, as Mars or Saturn, and be in the twelfth house, Combust and infortunated by the Lord of the twelfth, it imports the man is bewitched by a common Witch.

If the Lord of the twelfth be in the ascendant it argues Witchcraft, or that some evill Spirit doth molest the party, or that some that are neer him or about him have evill tongues, or in plaine tearmes, have bewitched him.
In places where people are troubled with Witches, as in many places of this Kingdome they are, these Rules will hold: as also, if the Moon be in the twelfth, in Opposition to the Lord of the ascendant or twelfth. . .>>

I will apply these rules to your chart in my next post.

Best,

Pam

Ancientstars:

When you look at Lilly's instructions about bewitchment, there are some interesting features that apply to your chart. Others do not; and that is good news.

We note that the the Lord of your ascendant, Mercury, is closely combust the Sun. Lilly notes this as a feature indicating not bewitchment, but fear of bewitchment. The nature of your question suggests this, and the chart confirms it.

If the Lord of the ascendant be Combust, or infortunate in the twelfth, or joyned to the Lord of the twelfth, there may be great feare, that the party enquiring or enquired for is Inchanted or Bewitched, or else some evill Spirits doe hant him.

Your chart shows both combustion of the Lord of the Ascendant and and the Lord of the Ascendant joined to the Lord of the twelfth. This is a loud and clear verificaiton from the stars that you are in fear of being bewitched.

Now, to test whether the chart says you actually are bewitched, you need to follow Lilly's instructions further:

If the Lord of the twelfth be in the sixth, or the Lord of the sixth in the twelfth, or the Lord of the ascendant in the twelfth, or the Lord of the twelfth in the ascendant, or the Lord of the eighth in the ascendant, or the Lord of the ascendant in the eighth, in a Question where suspition of Witchcraft is, it is probable; otherwise not so: But the Judgment succeeding I have found more certaine.

It's a received, generall Rule amongst those Artists that know the Cabalisticall Key of Astrologie, that if one Planet be Lord of the ascendant and twelfth house, that then the Sicknesse is more then naturall: when Saturn is Lord of the ascendant and twelfth, and in the twelfth Retrograde, or in the 7th or eighth house in the same condition, and the Moon being Lady of the sixth, apply to Saturn, we constantly judge the party enquiring is Bewitched or Fore-spoken, or that an evill Spirit hath power over him, and that the Infirm will be sore oppressed and disturbed in his Fancy, if not distracted.

This passage from Lilly reminds us that fears (stress) and sickness are closely related. Thankfully, you do not have any of the signs of bewitchment or supernatural interference in your chart--the chart instead shows that you are suffering from the stress of dealing with possible bewitchment, and it is taking a toll on you. I hope you will allow the stars to instruct you that bewitchment is not occurring in this case, and put your mind at rest.

Of course, if you find contact with this woman unwelcome because of her
manipulative ways, there is no reason to maintain contact with her. We do not need to find that she is bewitching you to give you a reason or excuse to avoid her. It is a matter within your own power to choose your friends for whatever good reasons you have. If you must maintain contact with her for purely social reasons, do what you must. You do not have to trust her or let her into your life in any way if it makes you uncomfortable.

Finally, we can search the chart to see if there is any risk of your fears about this woman coming true in the future. Lilly discusses fears as an eighth house question.

There is not much here that applies to your chart. Your Moon is within an angle, not falling from an angle. Although both the Moon and the Lord of the Ascendant are unfortunate in that the are combust the Sun, we already know that the combustion describes in your fears of this woman. It reminds me of the expression, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

The major risk of harm to yourself that I see on the chart is Mercury's upcoming conjunction with Mars. Mars, Lord of the eighth in this chart discussing fear, would indicate your fears. It seems the actual risk originates in your struggle to overcome your fears of this woman, instead of any actions she has taken to harm you supernaturally.

I hope the answers found in the chart will give you more peace about this question. Let me know if you have more questions. I know Lilly's language is not everyday English. I will do my best to answer you.

Best,

Pam

aglaya wrote:I'm not used to Horary charts in Placidus system of houses, i was hoping you'd post the exact time and place of the question unless, of course, it is your choice to use this system.

aglaya,
Thank you for your comments. It's interesting to read your comments and Pam's.
The chart I posted says 'Regiomontanus'. By the way, planets didn't move houses whether I chose Placidus or Regiomontanus.

spirlhelix,
Thank you so much for posting the Lilly's quotes regarding witchcraft.
Your comments have reassured me that it is unlikely that there is anything funny going on.
I believe that no spells or bad wishes have longlasting effects though it could stirr up a temporary inconvenience. It sounds really silly to talk about witchcraf matter this day and age. I have met many so-called new age witches and none have made me feel the way my ex-neighbour did, something deep and nasty underneath friendliness which unsettled me. She may not have used supernatural powers to do anything but she can certainly use her brain and once she puts on her posh accents and her sweet talk, she will get through to anyone she wishes to get any private information. I guess I became 'privacy too conscious' having lived in a crowded occupancy where there is little privacy.

I have moved away now and there is absolutely no reasons why I have to keep in contact with her. If I wanted I would have kept in touch in the first place.

Thank you all for your help!

ancientstars