Hi folks,

I've had a couple questions asked lately, both related to romance/relationships, where Saturn is the 5th ruler and has shown up in the querent's 1st. In one chart the Moon applies to trine the querent (Mercury) and will then conjunct Saturn in the 1st....but not Jupiter (the quesited) until after the Moon meets Saturn. Mercury is of course in mutual reception with Saturn, and applies to conjunct Jupiter, after the trine with Saturn!

Since the question is related to a 'fling' or a lover/sexual relationship as opposed to something durable or long-term, I'm a bit perplexed as to whether Saturn as 5th ruler is prohibiting, or carrying, since Jupiter has separated from its trine to Saturn. (Jupiter in the question, btw, is placed in the 5th).

Neither the Moon or Mercury are within orb of either Saturn OR Jupiter...so it seems to me that whatever the result there would likely be a delay...(?) Or does not being in orb prohibit it entirely?

*Sigh. So many questions. *

Saturn is hardly a benefic, but with the receptions and house placements being what they are, does Saturn bring the love episode together (or should I say, the people together as lovers), or is Saturn in the 1st to be taken as the traditional warning of restrictions?

Thanks for any advice. I can post the details of the chart if you can't 'see' what I am asking.

Cheers,
GH

Mercury is currently in mutual reception wtih SAturn, I'd say Saturn is the person to whom Mercury is or should be attached rather than Jupiter, who is debilitated in any case. I think Mercury is looking to Jupiter for wrong reasons. that is off the cuff since I'm not looking at a specific chart,

Granny

But does the 5th represent a person, or a 'state'? The question is specifically about the Jupiter person and what the Mercury person would like to have with the Jupiter person (which is: a Saturn 'state', e.g. a 'FWB' relationship).

I'm just wondering because Mercury and Jupiter are BOTH interested in Saturn...but does it work out?

GH

I"m thinking translation of light would apply, but Jupiter is really not in the best of condition, Mercury should take care., just a thought... And if saturn is a person... I'd say go with saturn.

Granny

Sounds like my Natal chart! Saturn ruling the 5th cusp and sitting in the 1st!

I found a similar situation just the other day and I was a bit unsecure what the placement of L5 in the first concerning romantical issues might mean especially since the chart I was looking at was concerning the 5th house rather that the 7th house matters (potential mutual attraction between two people)! If the question was about the potential pregnancy, according to Lilly, the ruler of the 5th inside the 1st would be a very good sign. Now, this is also the 5th house matter but should this placement be considered a good sign here too?

This is what I'm wondering. My question concerns two people who are already attracted to one another in a 5th house sort of way; but does the 5th actually bring these two together, especially if it's Saturn?

GH

Ohh, my head. Having just re-read Graeme Tobyn's article on perfection and denial, I'm none the clearer. Is Saturn going to translate, or prohibit? Saturn receives Mercury and Jupiter by domicile. Mercury will reach Saturn first, and then perfect a conjunction with Jupiter without evasion.

*scratches head*

GH

Hi Gunhilde,

My advice is, keep it simple by remembering that L1 and L7 are *people*, L5 is the *activity*

So we need to see L1 and L7 applying to aspect, or perhaps L1 and L7 applying to L5, for the event (5th house activity) to occur.

The fact that L5 is in the 1st in this type of question is no surprise, given that 5th house stuff is what is being asked about It could be a testimony that the querent *will* experience the 5th house activities he/she desires...

But of course, only if L7 shows some indication that he/she is also interested and able to respond

Keren

Thanks, KH...yes, I was trying to keep it simple, but sometimes I wonder if it's ME who is simple.

L7 and L1 are both interested in L5...L7 separates but L1 applies to L5...so I guess that one interpretation is that L1 convinces L7 to 'action' L5. If so, and there isn't any interference (which is what stumps me: orbs and whatnot), the querent will be very pleased indeed. There is minor reception between L1/Moon and L7 by triplicity and face (they are social acquaintances). Perhaps the applying but out-of-orb-as-of-yet aspect indicates a period of waiting, since there is no other interference from other planets to hinder perfection...so 'awhile' before any H5 activity takes place...?

GH

Hi GH

Just one thought....Saturn deposits both the principal significators...Mercury and Jupiter....and is heading for station and Retrogradation....So I wouldn't bet much on Saturn.

In my view, it will be H5 affairs, which are eventually going to cause a change in the situation....not to the satifaction of the querent though, I am afriad.

regards
raj

kerenhappuch wrote:It could be a testimony that the querent *will* experience the 5th house activities he/she desires...
But of course, only if L7 shows some indication that he/she is also interested and able to respond

Keren

Thanx, KH, for this explanation! The bolded part was actually what bothered me since, finding the ruler of the Querent inside a ceratin house should usually indicate the interest of the Querent (L1 in the 5th- the Querent being interested in a romantical activities, sex, pregnancy, gambling, fun etc. right? )so, the other way around placement representing the possibility that a certain spehere of life could "open its door to the Querent" (come to him/her), sort of speaking, seemed like a logical explanation. Though, at least as long as the chart I have is concerned, the only question was- does she fancy me? . I have, of course, looked for any sign of a mutual or one-way attraction (reception) between L1 and L7 and I did find some strong testimonies of the Quesited's interest plus applying aspects between their main significators so this L5 inside the 1st was just another potential testimony I didn't know how to explain. I wouldn't generally pay that much attention to that house unless in a case (like this one) when I see a strong involvement of that house's ruler with the matter questioned and a connection to either one of the significators. finally- the Querent himself is not sure whether he'd start any kind of a relationship with the Quesited because of some other objective reasons so, he only wanted to know whether the Quesited was interested in him so that he'd know how to approach this whole situation with caution. So, maybe (just maybe), though he's trying to approach this situation in a mature way and avoid problems, COULD IT BE that the 5th house matters will come to him any way and that, in the end, he'll have to deal with these matters this way or the other (won't be able to avoid activities represented by the 5th- in this case saturn is sitting on his asc.)?

And, now, as for this Saturn being a prohibitor or not- it's one slippy ground, i'd say- who knows how many astrologers would say that the Saturn inside the Natal 5th denotes a lack of children and I've seen numerous charts of women with two or three children with such placement. Some of them became pregnant at a very early age. So, translated into this "romantical" language- if the question was about the potential of an, as KH would suggest, riomantical activity rather than the encounter (ie 1st/7th house matter) to take place or develop, I somewhat doubt that Saturn being in the first (and ruling the 5th) could actually be a prohibitor (there should be another sign of prohibition in the chart, right?). A delay?- perhaps, but could we use the same logic in pregnancy charts than as well; Saturn ruling the 5th and sitting on the Querent's Ascendant being one good indication of an upcoming pregnancy yet announcing a delay regardless of other testimonies of swiftness suggested by Lilly (nr. of houses between asc and L5 etc)?

As usual, I have something devious to suggest

May be it is a warning "Don't even go there-BABIES could be involved".
It could also occur if the prime consideration of one party is getting the other to be a sperm or egg donor.This would explain why the 7th is weak and the 5th strong.Saturn, a cold planet, in a barren virgo-who knows it is fertility that motivates the question.

Seasons greeting to everyone.

PD