Hi Kirk,

Yes points do not have any orb but of course the planet in aspect does. Can anyone else cast any light (pardon the pun) on this?

As to your second question I thought somebody might pick me up on this. I was actually thinking of the so-called royal stars like antares. I say so-called because since learning about them I find that some modern research claims that the concept is not as ancient as supposed.

Regards

Matt

Hello again,

Night Sky wrote: "Neither part of fortune, North node, South node do emit any radiation"

I think this is obvious, neither Arab parts or nodes are stars in the sky, or have their epycicle or they have a vis luminis, an orb.

Anyway I'm not happy with taking a couple of charts and then saying that Jupiter/Venus with the South Node means something, what about the rest of the chart?
On the contrary, we should not know what ancients say ad then look for it in an chart?

One of the most important quotes for Nodes comes from "Albumasar in Sadan", that is the manuscript starting with Dixit Sadan. Audivi Albumasarem dicentem... It was quoted in many medieval and Renaissance texts. It's a very famous text: Sadan heard Albumasar saying that Kings of the Greeks when they want to pray for the succes of some activity put the Head of the Dragon at MC in a benefic aspect with Moon and Jupiter...

And see Picatrix, ch. III.1. I'm translating from Italian version, but it should be the same in Pingree version. "The nature of the Head of the Dragon is increasing things, so if it mixes with benefic planets, they improve in honour and strenght but if with malefic planets, in damages and misfortunes. And in the same way the nature of the Tail is decreasing things. So if it is with benefic or malefic planets, decreases the good influences or in the other case, the deadly ones. "

Margherita

Gjiada wrote:

Anyway I'm not happy with taking a couple of charts and then saying that Jupiter/Venus with the South Node means something, what about the rest of the chart?
On the contrary, we should not know what ancients say ad then look for it in an chart?

Margherita

You are right in that we don?t just change our system on the fact of a couple of charts, though I have provided 5 examples, I think.

Absolutely right about taking the entire chart into consideration too.

I am just provoking some discussion here.

But my main point was that SN "as Saturn and Mars" is not necessarily "bad" because Saturn and Mars, even using the traditional system is not bad. I ask you to look at mystery chart number 17 to see how an accidentally dignified Saturn can produce great results even in its essential debility.

The difficulty associated with the SN I am not refuting, and the ease of the NN I am not refuting either. Just showing how productive it is, and how it does not need to signify illness, if the planet in question is strong.

The majority ofmy examples were indeed planets recieving essential dignity by domicile through mutual reception. Zidane?s Cancer Mars is trine a Scorpio Moon. There is something worth considering.

Good morning

Night Sky wrote: You are right in that we don?t just change our system on the fact of a couple of charts, though I have provided 5 examples, I think.

I don't want you misunderstand me, but this is exactly the way modern astrology works: "in my experience".
Surely you are right, still I am not happy with this method.

But my main point was that SN "as Saturn and Mars" is not necessarily "bad" because Saturn and Mars, even using the traditional system is not bad. I ask you to look at mystery chart number 17 to see how an accidentally dignified Saturn can produce great results even in its essential debility.

I completely agree. And I already wrote something about Saturn in Joseph Kennedy chart thread on the 29th December.

Planets never damage when they are well posited. Even when the familiarity with malefic stars make the native dishonest and wicked, there is always some dignity and honour in doing this. It's a sort of Honours of war.

Recently at my astrology lesson we should comment two different charts, and in both of them Saturn was the almuten of the Geniture.

The first one, the chart of Sergio Cofferati, now Major of Bologna, but as former leader of the most important Italian trade union, was successful to block the governmement plans to make easier the firing of workers.
The second one, the chart of Bettino Craxi, the most powerful Prime Ministers of Italian Republic, he died in exile in Hammamet (Tunisia) because he had been sentenced to 27 in jail from Italian judges.

Both have Saturn as Almuten but Sergio Cofferati has a day chart so Saturn in its hairesis can work for the better, it gives him honesty and uprightness.
Craxi is a night chart and Saturn is against its hairesis, so Saturn there means lust for power but even the exiled death.

The difficulty associated with the SN I am not refuting, and the ease of the NN I am not refuting either. Just showing how productive it is, and how it does not need to signify illness, if the planet in question is strong.

Anyway traditionally Tail of the Dragon is not a good omen.

The majority ofmy examples were indeed planets recieving essential dignity by domicile through mutual reception. Zidane?s Cancer Mars is trine a Scorpio Moon.

Well, Cancer Mars trining a Scorpio Moon is a mutual weakness.. But maybe it's because Italians don't love Zidane

Margherita