Al Morrison varies house system to suit Query -Derek Appleby 1 by Morpheus On p.11 of his book 'Horary Astrology-The Art of Astrological Divination', Derek Appleby writes, ....Al Morrison of New York, a respected astrologer, varies his system of house division according to the nature of the question, and he is well worth hearing on the subject... I was wondering if any of the member know about the system which Al Morison employed? Regards Morpheus https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/ Quote Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:22 pm
2 by delaforge Hi STJ: Here are the relevant notes I made at a lecture Al Morrison gave. "He listens to the client?s explanation of the problem and selects the appropriate House System Alcabitus relates to the man himself Placidus relates to Man and Society, or his Community Koch relates to the psychological part of Man Campanus relates to Economics, Business affairs Johndro Location Chart relates to Cultural pressures Porphyry relates to Religion and Ritual Magick Equal House From Asc relates to the Self with no psychological trimmings From MC relates to Status Of Placidus, Koch & the Johndro Location chart, the last two were not recommended; and the point was made that where there is no difference between Placidus, Koch & the Johndro chart, there is likewise no tension between the areas they symbolize." Please don't ask me to explain the last paragraph: I don't fully understand it myself and it's so long ago I took the notes, I have no recollection what I was trying to say! What I can add of my own experience is that, as someone interested in ceremonial magic, charts set using Porphyry have consistently shown the best results when it comes to interpreting initiation charts and the like. Morrison didn't mention Regiomontanus, now widely used in Horary, I believe. Delaforge Quote Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:08 pm
3 by Mark Thats interesting. Sounds a bit too complex for me but each to his own. However, I do think the question of what house system we use for horary generally is interesting. As I recall Derek Appleby used Placidus for his horary charts. I do wonder how long the Regiomontanus consensus on sites like this can last. It does make life simple to have a common reference but you dont find such agreement on natal charts anywhere. It was fine when traditional horary= Lilly and the 17th century astrologers However, knowledge of older sources of horary astrology indicates other systems prevailed before this such as Alcabitius, Whole sign , Porphyry and even Placidus. Still, I suppose if it aint broke dont fix it. Regio houses seem to work very well for horary. Then again I have never given another house system a fair go. I am using whole sign houses more for natal these days but somehow I cant get away from the feeling horary needs a quadrant house system since the issue of planetary stength is so fundamental to it. Still, with people as distinguished as Robert Hand, Chris Brennan and more recently Ben Dykes advocating whole sign horary its certainly something to ponder. Quote Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:33 pm
4 by Morpheus Hi Delaforge! Thanks a lot. I will try his system on my case book. Regards Morpheus https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/ Quote Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:27 pm
5 by Aika MarkC wrote:As I recall Derek Appleby used Placidus for his horary charts. Derek Appleby says in his book, that he used to use Placidus but went over to Regiomontanus. Only some of the charts in his book are in Placidus (the early ones). So I'd say he uses Regiomontanus. Quote Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:30 pm
6 by Morpheus Hi MarkC! Still, with people as distinguished as Robert Hand, Chris Brennan and more recently Ben Dykes advocating whole sign horary its certainly something to ponder. If i am not wrong, the above are not Practising Horary Astrologer Some notable practising Horary astrologers use Regiomontanus. I wonder if they experimented with other house systems? As, i have mentioned in another topic. There are some advantages in using Whole-Sign house system (i am using it for past 1 1/2 year). But it has slight disadvantage. It can not give you sign change within a house. Plus planets hitting any cusp of relevant house is important. We dont get that even in Whlole-Sign house system (except the Asc, Dsc, Mc, Ic). "There are more house systems in horary and natal, Horatio, than are dream of in your philosophy" Regards Morpheus https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/ Quote Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:36 pm
7 by Mark Derek Appleby says in his book, that he used to use Placidus but went over to Regiomontanus. Only some of the charts in his book are in Placidus (the early ones). So I'd say he uses Regiomontanus. Fair enough. I only recalled seeing the Placidus houses in the first edition copy I have. Personally I think Placidus is just as viable for horary as regio houses. Its not as if William Lilly invented horary. I suppose its both a testament to what a fantastic astrologer he was and the influence of Christian Astrology in the revival of horary in the English speaking world. Still, I dont see why an admiration for Lilly requires us to mimic all his practices such as his approach to houses. Last edited by Mark on Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:18 am, edited 3 times in total. Quote Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:06 am
8 by Mark Still, with people as distinguished as Robert Hand, Chris Brennan and more recently Ben Dykes advocating whole sign horary its certainly something to ponder. If i am not wrong, the above are not Practising Horary Astrologer It depends what you mean. If you are suggesting being a horary specialist like our own Deborah Houlding , then no I agree. However, I know Ben Dykes and Chris Brennan do practice horary astrology. Robert Hand also demonstrates a horary in his book on whole sign houses but I agree he is not noted for doing much horary work. More significantly, Ben Dykes recent translations of Masha'allah and Sahl show these founders of the western horary tradition were using whole sign houses for horary! Having said all this I still haven't done a horary with whole sign houses myself. I am rather attached to the idea that quadrant houses are better measures of planetary strength and this is fundamental to horary. Last edited by Mark on Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total. Quote Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:11 am
9 by Astraea This was ages ago, but at a lecture in 2000 Rob Hand said that he did daily horaries regarding investments (no easy field) for one specific client, and also that he used whole sign houses routinely for horary work - including the aforementioned financial queries. So I think that he must have an established horary practice, even though his speaking commitments and return to university have not allowed him to write on the subject. Quote Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:23 am
10 by Morpheus Having said all this I still haven't done a horary with whole sign houses myself. I am rather attached to the idea that quadrant houses are better measures of planetary strength and this is fundamental to horary. Thats quite a fair statement. My experience shows that Cadency at 1-7 angels is aptly shown by Whole Sign, however, i have no enough data to see whether it is demonstarted at Mc/Ic angle. But from the point of Querent and an astrologer, Asc should be the determining point. What do you think? There is no doubt that perhaps it would be many years if some one comes with as good a horary book as 'CA' This was ages ago, but at a lecture in 2000 Rob Hand said that he did daily horaries regarding investments (no easy field) for one specific client Daily horaries? for one specific client. Regards Morpheus https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/ Quote Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:13 am
11 by ### This was ages ago, but at a lecture in 2000 Rob Hand said that he did daily horaries regarding investments (no easy field) for one specific client Daily horaries? for one specific client. If that's true, maybe it's an indication that Hand's Whole Sign delineations were accurate and profitable. Quote Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:22 am
12 by Astraea If that's true, maybe it's an indication that Hand's Whole Sign delineations were accurate and profitable. Yes, Rob Hand said that his client was making money as the result of the horaries, and that's why he had Hand "on retainer" for daily counsel. Also, regarding the judgement of planetary strength by angularity in a quadrant system v. whole signs, I e-mailed Hand several months ago and asked if he used a quadrant system for such evaluations, and he said that he did not - he uses whole signs for everything and never uses quadrant systems any longer. Quote Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:38 pm