Hi All!

I want to share an excellent explanation offiered by David Roell of Astrology Center of America.

Here is the link

http://www.astroamerica.com/howto.html

I get a certain ego boost by seeing all the Eighth house sex stuff associated with fairy tales.

Weird read, that one.

That would go a little bit farther than what I'm ready to take... this Incubus and Succubus thing...

Anyway, 8th house for sex is something that I've been trying to understand for quite some time.

First assumption that I do is that 8th house for sex relates to the belief that house=sign, or at least analogue to it. So Scorpio=Sex=8th.

Now, Scorpio does rule the excretory system. And the sexual organs to a certain extent.

This is the first thing that comes to mind.

This article refers to masturbation as a 8th house affair. I believe it is mainly a 12th of self-undoing and hidden things (According to Frawley that is like that). Also, hysterical atacks due to sexual motivation falls on 12th house, as much as sexual fetish and the sort. Sex is in itself a hidden, private thing, so much more it's pervesions. We all know how is to be "public making sex", it's called marriage, and fits neatly in 7th above the horizon house. For extra-marital cases it goes to 12th and/or 5th (5th if you are single, but always with involvement of 7th; no 7th, no sex I'd say. Still, there could be exception for prostitution and other cases, but I would not bet on it).

So, putting it simple, according to ancients, sex is 7th. I do not use 5th for sex, but 5th somewhat leads to sexual interaction, for example, when ruler 7th is in 5th or vice-versa.

Now, sometimes in horary I saw situations that leads to sex with 8th house involvement. That happens when one of the partners is using the other, or when both are using each other. If anyone with extensive horary practice could confirm that, it would be nice, since I've seen the placement of 1st ruler in 8th and of 7th ruler in 2nd as signals of one using the other, including for sex.

Also, it's nice to remember that as much as a house has direct relation to it's opposite, it has also to those that come before and after, but not in a clear way. So, 6th represents abuse from 7th, 12th is where we commit mistakes or where we hide or have things hideen from ourselves, and 11th is where we receive "favors from the king", or the boss, ruled by 10th.

Strictly Horary experience speaking (two years and not more)

I am not convinced by John Frawley's and Lilly's explanation (maybe i need more years to agree with them)

If you have 'no strings attached' sexual relationship with any one, that person is represented by 5th house.

If you have a relationship where two people could 'nag' or are committed, than that person is a 7th house person.

I am ready to amend it. But right now, thats what experience suggests

STJ wrote:Strictly Horary experience speaking (two years and not more)

I am not convinced by John Frawley's and Lilly's explanation (maybe i need more years to agree with them)

If you have 'no strings attached' sexual relationship with any one, that person is represented by 5th house.

If you have a relationship where two people could 'nag' or are committed, than that person is a 7th house person.

I am ready to amend it. But right now, thats what experience suggests

Hmm, Frawley says the person is the 7th and what you do with them is the 5th. He doesn't put people in the 5th house at all.

The Horary Textbook, page 20:
It is the same distinction between the thing itself and the function of the thing.

Hmm, Frawley says the person is the 7th and what you do with them is the 5th. He doesn't put people in the 5th house at all.

The Horary Textbook, page 20:
It is the same distinction between the thing itself and the function of the thing.


I have read John's idea in his Text Book.We are human beings not functions.

So, my brother is 3rd house. If i have serious mortal differences with him (not court proceedings). He is not 7th house. My mother dies when i am born. Father takes care of me. He is still 4th house person. There is a difference between person and his station we can not confuse it with function in human beings.

If we have a relationship with a man or woman (strings attached) in which we can destroy each other or console each other. When we can nag and tease each other. When our hands are eithe at each other's throat or in tight embrace
thats a typical 7th house man-woman or man-man (ahem) or woman-woman (ahem) relationship.

If we have a relationship with a man or woman (no strings attached), than its 5th. And ofcourse a light relationship with a man or woman is sexual or a playful. If you understand that one night stand does not mean emotionally.

To quote John (not strictly in his own words)

More abler men than John Frawley, have written and answered horaries (for past 2 thousand years) when they strictly considered sexual partners (not function) from 5th house and when they considered sex with spouses they considered 7th house (and in that case 5th house was not used).

Any way, i am open to suggesstions. And i may amend in future.

[/quote]

STJ wrote:I have read John's idea in his Text Book.We are human beings not functions.

Exactly! That?s the point I was trying to make. People are not sex.

STJ wrote:More abler men than John Frawley, have written and answered horaries (for past 2 thousand years)

Well, you dragged John Frawley into it, not me. I was merely explaining his point. In no way does Lilly suggest that people we have sex with belong to the 5th house and according to Morin the 5th house is "bodily pleasure".

STJ wrote:when they strictly considered sexual partners (not function) from 5th house and when they considered sex with spouses they considered 7th house (and in that case 5th house was not used).

I'd be interested in reading more about ? would you mind referring to your sources?

I confess I haven't worked with any horaries, where sex itself was the main question. So I go by the rule: if it's a relationship question, treat it that way and look at Lord7.

I'd be interested in reading more about ? would you mind referring to your sources?

Are you interested in persian, arabic sources, not yet translated in western language? I have to write an article (and quote my srources therein) for once and for all to explain the point that When you have sex with a 7th house person. You look at 7th house and 7th lord. When you have sex with 5th house person than you look at 5th house and its lord.

The reason 5th house belongs to sex is that we have casual relationships with 5th house people. 5th house (apart from children) govern those people with whom we are not emotionally involved. They include

Friends (pub friends)
Sport friends
Provider of entertainment (thats one night stand people, wether they charge or not)

The persians did not say that 5th house is solely a house of sex (they say that it is house of casual playful relationships ofcourse mostly sexual), look at their solved horaries. When you have something interesting (like sex) outside committed partnership (be it marriage). You mostly have with a person who is not emotionally involved. All sex outside committed relationship was "Haram" (illegal) and outside committed relationship it was just for play, diversion, adventure, competition, or just flexing the muscles.

I am bit infuriated against JF, for the simple reason that in his all knowing style, he confused things in his strong worded arguments. So, why should not i use strong words against him. Sarcastic, yes I am. Respect. Sorry, i have respect for authroities, unless and until they know their own limits. JF, does not show respect to many authrorites. So do I dont respect self styled Modern Gurus

Tell me which significators to look at (dont say that see planet placed in a particular house). The rulership?

When will I have sex with my fiancee?
Will my sexual relationship with neighbour be found out?
Will i have sexual relationship wiht my Boss?


Where are the questions of sex which particulary involve 5th house and 1st house?

Where is the sex part?

And finally why William Lilly said that men and women relationhsips are to be seen from 7th house. For the simple reason that he was puritan. He can not write openly. He assumed that all people asking the question are in a committed and serious (or bit serous) relationships and no one night stands. Even in his autobiography he does not write about himself (the sexual being). Why he married his first wife? Was that simpe chivalery on his part or careful planning? He was shrewd. So is every one. Thats why from being an insignificant person he became the greatest writer on horary.

I met David Roell when I went over to his house to buy books from him, and I love the guy. Doesn't surprize me at all that he would come up with this.

For those who have no experience with working demonic magic, this post seems highly ridiculous. For those who have even a little knowledge or experience with the demonic set (and this included many nuns in convents all over Europe), this explanation is highly plausible.

I was reading The Moment of Astrology by Geoffrey Cornelius recently. At one point, he talks about William Lilly's demonic experiments. Lilly was apparently very proficient, but he had to back off because he felt it was getting out of control. He was mixing it with his astrological practice, and it probably aided his brilliantly shrewd interpretations. Cornelius quotes a brief journal entry which suggests that Lilly gave it up for his peace of mind.

I wouldn't be at all surprized if Alan Leo hadn't picked up on a whisper of this old tradition, an oral scrap from somewhere that he didn't know what to do with.

I would bet that some time around or after Lilly, an effort was probably made to categorize the sexual experience resulting from even minor demonic experimenting, since so many people had experienced these things that they were "common knowledge". The logical place to put this stuff would be the 8th House.

For those who have no experience with working demonic magic, this post seems highly ridiculous. For those who have even a little knowledge or experience with the demonic set (and this included many nuns in convents all over Europe), this explanation is highly plausible.

It shows that David Roell has a working knowledge of demonic magic/spirits and so-called ghosts. The article was pleasantly refreshing.