I had been planning to make a longer post but Steven's recent comments seem to have made that redundant. What an impressive post! I plan to copy it and study this detailed delineation.

The cardinal angles certainly seem to suggest several changes in regards career, relationships and the home address.

The Gemini Moon seems very prominent here. It is sect light, MC ruler and the only planet above the horizon. Its presence in the 9th house by whole sign as MC /10th house ruler suggests a career related to writing, the law, long distance travel or some kind of divinatory activity like astrology. Quite possibly all of these options as the MC is cardinal and the Moon is so changeable. That combined with Gemini and the Moon being disposited by a cardinal mercury indicates a remarkably restless career life and a lot of flexibility. The complete lack of any fixity in this this chart surely compounds this tendency.

Jupiter is the exaltation ruler of the MC and rules the 3rd house. It is both a domicile ruler and conjunct the North Node so there seems a real possibility of career and increase through writing or activity related to the law or spiritual concerns. However, Jupiter's presence in the cadent 6th house indicates this is only achieved after considerable effort and struggle by the native.

One thing I would note that has not been brought up already is that Venus is closely conjunct the fixed stars Shaula and Lesath in the 'sting' of the Scorpion. Venus is Lord 1 and 8 is located in the 3rd house. As the 'Tail end of the Scorpion', both of these stars have a Mars nature blended with Mercurian influence according to Ptolemy. , Both stars suggest an association with a quick mind, a stinging wit and a capacity for verbal attack.

Although both stars are traditionally unfortunate and unlucky Ebertin and Hoffman, point out that 'if associated with a benefic stellar body, and if channelled in the right direction, there is a possibility that the energy associated with the Mars nature can make for marked achievements. Here we have a benefic planet disposited by another benefic.

Still this does seem to indicate a lot of disappointment and misfortune in finding a happy romantic life. This reinforces other negative testimony already mentioned with the cardinal 7th house cusp, Saturn conjunct the desc and the 7th house ruler combust the Sun. I just cannot envisage such a chart producing a person who married happily at 18 and stayed with someone for 60years+.

I would expect the early part of this natives life to be the hardest. Using the triplicity rulers of Dorotheus Saturn is the first triplicity ruler of his sect light the Moon and his ascendant while Venus is the first triplicity ruler of his MC.

A lot of interesting thoughts have been written here from the perspective of Traditional Astrology so I will only add some points from an ancient perspective, the Paranatellonta or the Planet/Star relationships. There are an above average number of paran aspects to the bright stars in this chart.

The Sun and Mars are co-culminating with ALTAIR. Altair is the alpha star of the Eagle and is connected with bravery and boldness, and rash actions. The Sun-Mars conjunction is amplified by this star of a similar nature to Mars. Another paran of Sun/Mars to DENEB, the alpha star of the Swan, emphasizes the Warrior/Pioneer nature of the man.

Mercury, which is in a close square to Saturn, forms parans with 3 powerful, charismatic fixed stars: SPICA, FOMALHAUT and VEGA.
Spica means brilliance, bright new ideas.
Fomalhaut, a royal star and the watcher of the South, combined with Mercury gives idealistic, lofty visions. Its shadow side is deception.
And Vega, combined with Mercury, ?A visionary with a persuasive voice, or charismatic ideas? (Bernadette Brady). President Obama has this paran, and he certainly fits in here. (Hitler also had this Vega-Mercury paran, but Vega was ?in curtailed passage?, which can be read as the negative use of this talent, and he had all the four ?evil? stars in paran with a planet.)

Jupiter in paran with BETELGEUZE, the alpha star of Orion, indicates the adventurer, someone hungry for experiences.

Saturn is in paran with SIRIUS and VEGA. Saturn in combination with a star means that the principle or the nature of the star is put into concrete terms. So with Vega ?a dominating person who can hold unto power? and with Sirius ?To be a founder of an institution? (Brady again)

In my experience, stars can be interpreted as more fated than planets; there is less room or freedom to shape them.

Ren?

Hello 3D,

I dont want to go off into too much of a tangent here but I have a question on your post.

As I understand it the ancient Paranatellonta were only based on stars rising , culminating , setting or anti-culminating at the exact time of birth. Ancient texts like Anonymous of 379 and Liber Hermetis seem to suggest this approach.

Bernadette Brady seems to have significantly expanded this notion to include 'parans' that formed throughout the day of a persons birth. I may be incorrect but I see this as an innovation by Brady rather than an ancient or a traditional technique.

Are any of the Paranatellonta you list exact to this nativity or are they just general 'parans' that formed during the day of this person's birth?

I am not suggesting this approach is invalid. Just that the latter seems less personalised and therefore less directly relevant to the native in question in my opinion.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Paranatellonta as I understand them here are Mundane conjunctions, oppositions and squares between a planet and a star, irrespective of the actual position of the angles.
Mundane not in the sense of Mundane Astrology (Astrology of world events) but rather in the same sense as used with Primary in Mundo Aspects (including Latitude).

While most Astrologers keep the planets? positions fixed, Brady includes the proper motion of the planets and especially the moon for a 24 hours period. Solar Fire for example does not consider the proper motion. The difference only matters though for the moon and very fast planets.

Are any of the Paranatellonta you list exact to this nativity or are they just general 'parans' that formed during the day of this person's birth?

All the parans listed are real paranatellonta, but neither a planet nor a star is on an angle in this chart. I agree that the influence would be more important if it was so.

I hope this is not too confusing.

Ren?

Hi Ren?,

I dont think its confusing. Surely, though this means that all these 'parans' as Brady calls them could be applied to anyone born on that particular day in that location?

As I see it Brady's generalised 'parans for the day' technique is not consistent with how traditional authorities used the word Paranatellonta or worked with fixed stars in natal astrology. I am including Anonymous of 379 in that statement whom Brady claims as her main traditional source. The appeal of including the 'parans' for the day' approach is that every nativity has loads to choose from. However, in my view this dilutes the impact of charts with real fixed star contacts at the birth time. Incidentally, Solar Fire does have a 'paran' feature allowing one to calculate stars and planets in paran throughout the day as well as stars co-arising with angles or planets. Anyway, I dont want to pull the thread any further from our fascinating mystery chart as I have already taken up more than enough space on this so I will leave my comments at that.

Another house that is quite emphasised is the 7th and marriage; mainly because its ruler, Mars, is angular and it contains the other malefic, Saturn. One of the ancient?s judgements was that if the ruler of the 7th was combust then the native would never marry. I have in fact found in the charts of clients who have this configuration that if they did marry it never lasted long and was over pretty much as soon as it began.

After Steven?s consideration?s I went back to the SR: yes, mars and venus are in aversion, and don?t behold each other, but they are both closely aspecting Saturn in aquarius that collects their lights !

Moon, natural significator of wife, is transiting the natal DSC, joined to trine SR venus and sextile Saturn.

As saturn was in fall in the nativity, and now is in his own sign, I believe that Tom lead us to the year of the marriage, and then, one year after, the status quo won and they got an ugly divorce.

Hello Rene,

Paranatellonta as I understand them here are Mundane conjunctions, oppositions and squares between a planet and a star,

Paranatellonta means "rising together." They are the stars rising together with portion of ecliptic, traditionally 10 degrees, the so-called facies or decans.
See for example Teucer, the XXV chapter of Liber Hermetis, or Albumasar text I recently translated.
Ancients included even stars at a different angles. For example Manilius, Firmicus, Albumasar mention Argo Navis between Aries paranatellonta - in Ptolemy's list Argo Navis is in Cancer- because when Argo Navis rises, Aries is at MC.

After Albumasar the list became a standard in the famous Angelus'Astrolabium Planum.
For example in this Mistery chart the 13th degree of Libra is rising. Astrolabium Planum says "a man and a woman are quarrelling". Who are them?
The man is Hercules who follows the positions listed by Ptolemy in Almagest. But for the woman we should consider Albumasar text about paranatellonta. In fact for 12 Aries (the mirror point of the Ascendant at 12 Libra) according Albumasar "in the second facie of Aries there arises Andromeda."
An easy game, true?

irrespective of the actual position of the angles.
Mundane not in the sense of Mundane Astrology (Astrology of world events) but rather in the same sense as used with Primary in Mundo Aspects (including Latitude).

Aspects between planets and stars are in mundo in Brady work? In this case they are not irrespective of the angles.
I do this by hand, but the first moment of this process is calculating the distance from the nearer meridian, there is something I don't understand.

Margherita

Hi Margherita and Mark,

There seem to be some misunderstandings here about parans. But since this is Mystery Chart #18 and I am curious about the revelation I will open a separate thread when this is resolved.

Just let me add an extract from Robert Hand?s ?Essays on Astrology, p.99? that should clarify the question ?should the planets/stars be on the angles?? Sorry for using Rob Hand as a ?Killer Argument?

Ren?

P.S. I think Rob Hand adds to the confusion by mentioning the Declination which has nothing to do here - it belongs to another reference system. But more on that in the new thread.

But since this is Mystery Chart #18 and I am curious about the revelation I will open a separate thread when this is resolved

Good idea. I know how easy it is to get off topic and on to another equally interesting topic (I do it), but it is best to take other topics to new threads. Parans are a good topic, so please start a discussion at any time.

Tom

If Steven is reading this, I would like to make a question. You said that:

The Lot of the father is 28? Leo. The ancients directed this significator to know what happens to the father. I haven?t done the math but I can generally say that it appears that the Lot would be directed to Saturn?s aspect somewhere between the native?s ages of 8-10 years.

As Saturn is in 7 Aries, I am not sure how you did direct the lot. Virgo doesn?t behold Aries. The antiscia is very far away. Did you direct the lot against the order of signs ? And did you meant Saturn?s aspect, or is the Sun ? I am asking because it seems like a fairly great distance but I didn?t made the calculations also, so I really don?t know.

Thanks and sorry for the trouble

yuzuru wrote:If Steven is reading this, I would like to make a question.

Without presuming to answer for Steven, I can mention that I asked a similar question privately. The Lot of the Father is actually 28? Cancer, making the distance to Saturn's aspect in Leo 9? of longitude. Steven simply miswrote (is there such a word?) 'Leo' for 'Cancer'.

Another pertinent direction for the death of the father is Sun/Mars to the IC.

thanks martin
yeah, I should have calculated the part before asking, it would have been obvious.
thanks again