These days there is a great opportunity to repeat the ancient astrologers viewing of the last and first appearance of a planet. Venus is quickly moving towards its inferior (between Sun and Earth as opposed to superior on the 'other' side of the Sun) conjunction on 27th of march. Since Venus moves ca 0?40' retrograde per day and the Sun 1? forward the movement in respect to the Sun is about 1?40' per day. Last weeks we could see Venus speeding towards the Sun and now we have to look short after sunset to still see Venus. I saw her last saturday, yesterday it unfortunately was cloudy but it still must be possible.

More interesting is to find the reappearance of Venus. I remember that eight years ago I saw Venus early in the morning just days after inferior conjunction. I don't know how many days but I remember how surprised I was to see Venus so soon.

This is partly due to the speed of retrograde movement and to her brightness, but the main issue is that in this particular conjunction Venus is about 8? north of the Sun, so she setted much later after the setting of her ecliptical degree and her rising soon will be much earlier than the rising of her ecliptical degree. This is only positive for observers from the Earth's nothern hemisphere. Observers from New Zealand, South Africa etc. have much less opportunity. They probably lost Venus already a week ago and will have to wait much longer for her reappearance.

Yes cant see her from here (not that far off the equator as the crow flies) now - so she is in the underworld. Thanks Eddy

Sunny wrote:Yes cant see her from here (not that far off the equator as the crow flies) now - so she is in the underworld. Thanks Eddy

When did you last see her from your location? I believe from your location you will have less problems with the climate than from my location . Or is there a longduring rain season every year? My last view, Netherlands 52?North still remains Saturday March 21st. If Sunday wouldn't have been cloudy, I'm sure I would have seen her again. Perhaps Monday but then I was at my home with just a bit too little free horizon view.

At 52? the day is 13 hours 1st of April. so 6.5 hrs before culmination the Sun rises. Note that the morning visibility of Moon and planets in spring is usually less fortunate than the evening visibility. The Sun's declination is now higher than the part's of the ecliptic that rise before the Sun. The first few weeks this won't bother the view of Venus since she still is some 8? north of the equator. I lost her 6 days before conjunction and 6 days later is coming Thursday. So I think that (from 52?N) in theory Venus could be visible Thursday or even Wednesday.

...the conjunction with the Sun is the start of the new cycle...

I wonder which one is the most significant conjunction, superior or inferior (like it is now). Superior occurs furthest from Earth, inferior closest. I've forgotten (I'm sorry, I'm now a bit too lazy to search on the internet) which one but in the older era's (before individual astrology) the Babylonians considered either the morning or evening Venus as male and war like and the other female and peace loving. I believe to have read that in even older periods (3000-2000BC) the Babylonians considered Venus always masculine (from Michael Baigent's 'From the omens of Babylon').

The Babylonians (as far as I know) didn't know heliocentricity, but from the heliocentrioc point of view I have a slight preference for the superior conjunction as beginning of a cycle. The outer planets, Mars for example have their conjunction when furthest from the Sun and when the opposition with the Sun occurs, the planet is closest to Earth. I wonder if this could be applied to Venus (and Mercury).

It is difficult though. The Moon between Sun and Earth definitely is 'new', so it would be hard to consider Venus 'full' when in inferior conjunction. However now she is closest I would presume that her 'influence' might be stronger. Or should we consider the greatest elongations as the positions of greatest influence? Perhaps the Greeks and Medieval astrologers did that but since we know heliocentricity, I personally tend to think that some some 'modern' heliocentricity related consideration has its values.

I just remember that years ago I had noticed that there had been heavy rainfalls in november 1994 at the Venus inferior conjunction. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002HyPr...16.1275C and more places.

Last week's inferior conjunction could have something to do with the heavy rainfall and burst of that dam in Indonesia last week.

I'll do some searching next days.

Eddy wrote:
Last week's inferior conjunction could have something to do with the heavy rainfall and burst of that dam in Indonesia last week.

I'll do some searching next days.

Hello Eddy,
for what I know the synod with Venus is VERY, VERY wet,
Margherita

Thanks Deb,
And yes you're right, Venus will next emerge as a morning star and after a bit 'googling' I believe you're right as considering this the 'start' of the synodic circle. Since the time between disappearance and reappearance of Venus is very fast at the inferior conjunction, the Babylonians may have considered this the most important conjunction and thus the 'start' of a new cycle. I also found that the Babylonians considered Venus as a morning star as male and a good time for undertaking warfare. http://mountainastrologer.com/tma/venus ... the-mirror

Further the early Greeks (and other peoples) didn't know that the evening and morning star were the same. They gave them different names.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperus

....for what I know the synod with Venus is VERY, VERY wet,...

Did you have rainfall in Italy last week Margherita? Here in the Netherlands it was very rainy but since a few days the weather is good. There were those sudden showers typically for March (in the dictionary the Dutch 'maartse buien/march showers' is translated to English as 'April showers' ), so I'm not sure if I can blame the conjunction.

I tried to look on the internet googling for "heavy rainfall" and "flooding" and with the year and the month of an inferior conjunction. I was a bit stringent on myself only looking for events very close to the date of conjunction, and the rainfall had to be sudden events, not a part of many weeks or months of rain (as I found in the 'Mississipi floodings' of 1993)It's not a real 'scientific' method of research. Many heavy rainfall events occur on other dates and during conjunctions other areas suffer drought, but I found a couple of events.

First here's a list of dates of inferior conjunctions of Venus.
http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918ics.htm

2009 last week's bursting of the dam in Indonesia after heavy rainfall. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situ_Gintung
2007 http://climate.umn.edu/doc/journal/flas ... 070820.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Midwest_flooding
2006 http://www.kondinin.wa.gov.au/news/jan06floods (Australia)
2004 http://reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SI ... enDocument
1996 http://cstar.cestm.albany.edu:7773/Rese ... afton.html
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007AIPC..923...77R
1994 http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002HyPr...16.1275C
And there had been heavy rainfall in Ethiopia and Djibouti http://www.africa.upenn.edu/eue_web/strp1194.htm

Margherita, perhaps you know of the november 1994 rainfall in Piedmont Italy, it must have been a severe one.

I didn't go back further in time but I still have a bit doubts about my own method of 'research'. Is there really a 'Venus effect' or have I just been cherry picking some interesting data? Or was I a bit too severe on myself for narrowing the date to just a few days around the conjunction?

Effect or no effect, these days have been bright days at my place. If the Sandman allows I will wake up early before work to cycle outside my city for a free horizon view and look for Venus tomorrow. Perhaps I will be armed with a pair of binoculars.

Eddy wrote:Did you have rainfall in Italy last week Margherita? Here in the Netherlands it was very rainy but since a few days the weather is good. There were those sudden showers typically for March (in the dictionary the Dutch 'maartse buien/march showers' is translated to English as 'April showers' ), so I'm not sure if I can blame the conjunction.

Sorry for the late reply. We are having some rains now.

First here's a list of dates of inferior conjunctions of Venus.
http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918ics.htm

Good link, thanks

Margherita, perhaps you know of the november 1994 rainfall in Piedmont Italy, it must have been a severe one.

I checked it; the most deadly ones in Italy were:
Longarone, 9th October 1963, 1800 (1 thousand eight hundrends!) victims
Florence, 4th November 1966, 35 victims
Val di Fiemme, 18th July 1987, 360 victims
Sarno, 5th May 1998, 159 victims.

I didn't go back further in time but I still have a bit doubts about my own method of 'research'. Is there really a 'Venus effect' or have I just been cherry picking some interesting data? Or was I a bit too severe on myself for narrowing the date to just a few days around the conjunction?

Just I don't understand why you mention just the inferior- is the retrograde conjunction, true?
Ptolemy and Ephaestio did not mention which of the two conjunctions.
Hephaestio writes (Schidmt translation) "When the star of Venus alone becomes lord of the result...as regards the air, it causes temperate and wet ....and abundance of water." And here he is quoting Ptolemy, book II.

so why you are just mentioning one of the two conjunctions? I missed something in the thread?
Margherita

In Australia there are floods in NSW the rains from the earlier deluge have now traveled south and reached South Australia bringing abundant bird life to a drought ravaged area - here in the tropics it is un seasonally dry, low humidity and the rain appears to of stopped a month or so early

Hi Sunny,

Was it NSW that suffered the fires last january? I searched a bit and believe that the rains started monday 30th march. http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/
http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/floo ... oast/11561
Is that correct?

The Venus conjunction was not 'alone' the new Moon was there a week ago and Mercury was conjunct with Venus Sunday 29th at ca 2h or 3h UT. I believe this is 13h or 14h EDT(of NSW) (including daylight saving time)Tuesday Mercury was in (superior) conjunction with the Sun at ca. 2h UT (13h EDT)

weatherzone wrote:By 3pm, Lismore had already received nearly 100mm of rain, their heaviest fall in three years.

So maybe the Mercury-Sun conjunction could have triggered the event. I wonder if it started raining over there at noon or in astrological terms when Sun and thus Mercury at quite an exact moment of conjunction was conjunct the Meridian.

Eddy wrote:And yes you're right, Venus will next emerge as a morning star and after a bit 'googling' I believe you're right as considering this the 'start' of the synodic circle. Since the time between disappearance and reappearance of Venus is very fast at the inferior conjunction, the Babylonians may have considered this the most important conjunction and thus the 'start' of a new cycle.

I wonder whether Venus in this state, as ruler of the ascendant and in a nativity, would coincide withe a sudden birth. Some children 'drop out' faster than expected.

Hi Eddy
The Bushfires were in Victoria Saturday 7th February the worst affected area was Marysville - people were only allowed back to their properties late last week, those fire storms were absolutely apocalyptic with winds up to 120km per hour sucking the oxygen out of the atmosphere before the fire even got there, truly horrifying People say that there just wasnt enough time to get out of there. About the rain in NSW not really sure when it started sorry cant help you there - you could try http://www.abc.net.au/news/australia/ go to Australia then click on NSW and you should be able to get the news from there. Australia was in drought prior to the floods in Queensland (QLD) and now New South Wales(NSW)

Gjiada wrote:I checked it; the most deadly ones in Italy were:
Longarone, 9th October 1963, 1800 (1 thousand eight hundrends!) victims
Florence, 4th November 1966, 35 victims
Val di Fiemme, 18th July 1987, 360 victims
Sarno, 5th May 1998, 159 victims.

Thanks for posting those dates Margherita. I believe I was too much focused on the Southern hemisphere yesterday, but now I looked at these dates. A quick view in the ephemeris shows that the first three disasters rather close to the date of the superior conjunction of Venus. The 1966 one occurred one week before the conjunction. The 1998 one wasn't close to a Venus conjunction but it occurred one week before the conjunction of the Sun with Mars. (Uranus was square to this conjunction by the way.)

Just I don't understand why you mention just the inferior- is the retrograde conjunction, true?
Ptolemy and Ephaestio did not mention which of the two conjunctions.
Hephaestio writes (Schidmt translation) "When the star of Venus alone becomes lord of the result...as regards the air, it causes temperate and wet ....and abundance of water." And here he is quoting Ptolemy, book II.

so why you are just mentioning one of the two conjunctions? I missed something in the thread?

Yes the inferior conjunction is always the retrograde conjunction. I didn't actually have a particular reason to mention just the inferior conjunction. I think just because Venus was in that position last week and she will soon appear in the morning. (I haven't seen her yet.) When I heard about the bursted dam in Indonesia I also remembered that there had been heavy rainfall in 1994 at the time of another inferior conjunction. So you didn't miss anything, but I simply focused on the inferior conjunction .

But it is indeed worth thinking about the effects of the superior conjunction of Venus. I didn't really have Ptolemy in mind. I assume that you meant ?8 of Tetr. II. There Ptolemy mentions only positive issues under Venus: moist, yes but only in the sense of fertility etc. while Saturn is associated with floods, storms and other disasters.

I haven't found a lot on Kepler and his weather investiagions but I know he considered the aspects as very important which he based upon investigation of the weather. I try to do the same, just looking at aspects and try to see if there are 'effects', no matter what planet or aspect involved.

The Ptolemaeic system has Venus' epicycle with Venus always moving before the Sun, never behind like in the heliocentric system. The 'technical' difference between these conjunctions is that when Venus is in superior conjunction she is with the Sun, and therefore invisible, for many weeks or even a couple of months. Venus moves just a bit faster than the Sun. The superior conjunction of Venus in 2005 occurred march 31st*. From February 18th till May the 8th she was within 10? from the Sun. This is about 11 weeks or 2.5 months.

During the inferior conjunction the period that Venus is within 10? from the Sun is from March 21 till April 3rd, only 2 weeks. This makes me wonder if the differences between the two types of conjunctions might get apparent in longduring versus sudden events. Maybe there are no classical sources but I believe that heliocentricity urges us to think about some differences.

Andrew Bevan wrote:I wonder whether Venus in this state, as ruler of the ascendant and in a nativity, would coincide withe a sudden birth. Some children 'drop out' faster than expected.

Interesting question. I don't know about this but I know someone born at almost an exact Venus-Sun superior conjunction and she never had children. It can be discussed which of the conjunctions is the 'starting' one but I've always found it attractive to compare the superior conjunction with 'new moon' and inferior conjunction with 'full moon'. And it follows that I think that the evening star Venus can be considered 'waxing' and the morning star Venus 'waning'. Maybe this is opposed to tradition and perhaps I'm wrong and this may be some 'own' invention, but some feeling in me makes me consider the inferior conjunction Venus a much more 'fertile' sign than the superior conjunction.

Sunny wrote:The Bushfires were in Victoria Saturday 7th February

Now I rembemer again how terrible these fires had been. From end of December 2008 till end of January Mercury and Jupiter were in a longduring conjunction within ca. 7?. They were in conjunction with the Sun around January 20th. Perhaps these positions could be related with the drought. Another longduring aspect was the sextile of Venus and Mars in January/February. Perhaps a sextile is not the first thing to think about during a disastrous time but I try to approach the aspects rather neutrally. Europe had quite a cold period from end of December till January/February.

* - There are some interesting 'rhythms' in Venus phenomena. Most know of the 8 year cycle, but as mentioned 4 years before (and thus after) inferior conjunction a superior conjunction occurs close to the same date/month. Another interesting issue is that 3 years ago end of March 2006 Venus was in greatest elongation as a morning star. And three years from now, in 2012 same period March, Venus will again be in greatest elongation, but this time as evening star. Thus we have in the same time of year (end of March begin April):
2005 - Superior conjunction
2006 - Greatest morning elongation
2009 - Superior conjunction
2012 - Greatest evening elongation
Venus as a 'calendrical beacon' is a fascinating planet.