Right.

What I've actually had in mind is that the Sun might be the ruler of the unfortunate house in Debbie's horoscope(12th,8th or 6th). Moreover, this conjunction may also be situated in one of these houses, or receiving bad aspects from unfortunate planets...it is also very important to see where the Moon is posited,etc. And Venus, although very important element in judging potentials of one's love life is by far not the only one. It could also be the case that she accidentaly rules, let's say, the 8th or the like.

It has been my understanding of cazimi thus far that ANY position of the Sun greatly strenghtens the planet in its bossom - but of course,essentially fortified Sun has a lot more to offer than a peregrine or depresed one, that's for sure(I hope so, at least )

I remember looking at a delineation of Oprah's chart at Gryphon Astrology blog where one can see that in her horoscope Venus is cazimi in Aq in the 6th, where the Sun is in its detriment. As we all know, Oprah enjoys enormous popularity especially among women and is very lucky/wealthy-Venus rules the 2nd in the chart. Of course, this is only one testimony to her success and doesn't prove anything on its own. Moreover, the Sun in her horoscope actually rules the 12th...

Let's be a little cautious about astrological delineations based on vague statements! Debbie may have said she doesn't have a love life, but in another post she mentioned having children. She most likely didn't purchase them at Walmart.

even without horoscope (even though it would be very interesting to see it) we should realize that an essentially peregrine Sun cannot give any virtue to Venus,

This can too easily lead to the conclusion that anyone with the Sun in Cancer has a weak and aimless Sun that can't do much of anything ? along with Sun in Taurus, Pisces, and most of Gemini, Virgo, Scorpio and Capricorn. We've been encouraged to use essential dignity rather simplistically.

In the northern hemisphere, where western astrology was developed and most of the world's population lives, the Sun is high in the sky and blasting the landscape during its passage through Cancer. The seasonal emphasis of Tropical astrology would suggest that the Cancer Sun is powerful and in command. A diurnal chart will especially show this. Sect has got to be so much more imporant and meaningful than the fact that the minor dignity of face could have given the Sun some essential dignity and all the good things that supposedly brings.

From what I've seen I think the good house/bad house distinction also needs a more careful and subtle approach than it often gets, especially in the consideration that a planet rules houses 6,8 & 12.

Here is my birth data.

June 24, 1952
9:39 PM
Boston, MA

I tried to copy from Astrodienst but for some reason couldn't.

It is sunny in Salem this afternoon and I going to walk my dog Rocky.

Thankx for the input.

Debbie

Debbie Clarke wrote:Here is my birth data.

June 24, 1952
9:39 PM
Boston, MA

I tried to copy from Astrodienst but for some reason couldn't.

It is sunny in Salem this afternoon and I going to walk my dog Rocky.

Thankx for the input.

Debbie

To confirm I make the asc 24D7' of capricorn. This puts the Sun and Venus in the 6th house applying to a square of Saturn in Libra. Surely this is more significant than the cazimi?

Hi Debbie,

thank you very much for your birth data. Is your chart correct with AC in 24?07 Satittarius?

cor scorpii, of course all your arguments are right and should be taken into account in a more detailed analysis.

There are other birth data too for Oprah Winfrey in Astrodienst ASTRODATABANK, AC in the 30th degree of Sagittarius(?). No chance to enter now, so I'll give the link later.

Kirk, my only point was to show that it is not astounding to "have no love life" with a Venus in cancer, even if this Venus is in cazimi! Of course we schould always be careful with our delineations and conclusions but it was not me who spoke of "love life" first. I really don't believe at all that this was one of the "vague statements". In any case I have no reason not to take Debbie's statement seriously.

The Sun in Cancer is peregrine and is not in his face. Venus is in her face in Cancer.

Johannes

Debbie Clarke wrote:I have Venus at 3degrees 22 minutes of Cancer and the Sun at 3 degrees 26 minutes Cancer. I can be very charming but have no love life.

Natally, Sun applies favourably to Jupiter in Taurus- how did you get along with Pisceans and Taureans ??
I guess, your first love could have been a Scorpio

I think sun is the key-as Leo is intercepted in the 7th and 7th lord moon is in Leo. Sun opposition Chiron could be worth reading about.I have found the Sun-Chiron hard aspects relate to lack of self-expression where it is needed.

from cafe-astrology:

With Chiron-Sun hard aspects, for example, we tend to feel ineffective when it comes to expressing our creativity. In youth especially, there is a shyness about performing, about "being seen", about being allowed to shine. These are children who hide their work in school or in art class. Very often, they are "middle children", and feel that their creativity was stifled in youth! People with these aspects often worry unnecessarily about their performance, and are often left feeling devastated when they are criticized. They are often very good at boosting others' confidence, yet neglect to build their own! This is where the "teacher" side of Chiron comes into play. People with strong Chiron are often very good at inspiring others, giving them pep talks, offering very friendly and sincere advice, and so forth--yet they have a hard time healing themselves.

PD

Here is the promised link to alternative birth datas of Oprah Winfrey, example of Venus in cazimi (with latitude):

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Winfrey%2C_Oprah

Scroll down to and have a look at 'Source Notes' there!

Hi Johannes,

Kirk, my only point was to show that it is not astounding to "have no love life" with a Venus in cancer, even if this Venus is in cazimi! Of course we schould always be careful with our delineations and conclusions but it was not me who spoke of "love life" first. I really don't believe at all that this was one of the "vague statements". In any case I have no reason not to take Debbie's statement seriously.

There is more to the ?no love life? statement which I hesitated about getting into. The apparent first choice of reading it is as a factual lack of romance, sex etc. That is the approach you've taken. The less apparent, and to me truer, meaning is more in the direction of how one perceives one's love life, what one thinks about it. I read it as a complaint that there is less romance & sex than is wanted ? possibly even with an element of self-pity involved. The first step is to pick apart the statement.

As I've stated before, I think the cazimi idea is so much hogwash. Therefore, I don't approach this as a matter of what an extra-special (cazimi) Venus might provide, but more as a matter of what the power and will of the Sun is doing with and/or to a very combust Venus. I don't understand your statement that ?it is not astounding to "have no love life" with a Venus in cancer?. Venus is comfortable enough in Cancer and should be able to provide. The sign of the Moon's domicile rulership and Jupiter's exaltation is excellent turf for Venus, even more so when you consider that she is the diurnal triplicity lord (lady) in the Dorothean system.

But being so intensely combust could be drying this Venus out. Also, the Sun, Mercury and Venus in Cancer can make for a very strong subjective orientation and a strong desire to stir up some emotional interaction ? a call for a love life. Moon in Leo could provide a need to be significant and of consequence in the eyes of others. And Capricorn rising ? well, Capricorn does have a tradition of being rather lusty and so might not like the dry periods very much. It's also a strongly self-oriented sign. And then there's the Sun-Venus square to Saturn, the ASC ruler. But the fact is we're still working with a vague declaration of ?no love life? and can't be sure exactly what it means.

I just want to clarify what I mean by no love life. I have had loves but have not have one for a long time so that is not say I never had a love life.
Anyway, thanks for your input I am really learning a lot.

johannes susato wrote:Here is the promised link to alternative birth datas of Oprah Winfrey, example of Venus in cazimi (with latitude):

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Winfrey%2C_Oprah

Scroll down to and have a look at 'Source Notes' there!

source notes wrote:The 4:30 chart fits her perfectly. Jupiter rules the ASC and sits in the 6th house of work, in Gemini (communication) and trine the Midheaven. Sigittarius Rising also can give weight problems. Libra Rising doesn't.

My sister has Libra rising and her greatest battle is to lose weigth. Actually, I think nothing is more important to her...

With a Venus Scorpio dispositing a Sun in Libra in 12th, I guess one can figure something out of it and forget the nonsense about Libra rising gives no weight problems. But I say this just as a curiosity, let's not deviate...

A few years back this question was asked by someone on one of the listservs. I have an Egyptian friend and he felt it came from the Arabic word Kassim which means close friend I think but maybe I have fogotten its exact meaning.
Majid Buell

I think cazimi can be useful, just like spear-bearers can be if the planet has good essential dignity to start with. If Venus is cazimi in Pisces or Mercury in Virgo, great - cazimi will likely give it an extra boost.

Moon in Capricorn or Mars in Cancer cazimi - I don't think it's going to help at all. At least that's been my experience.