Greetings:

Cornelia?s recent posts on publishing have inspired me to post an electional chart I?ve been mulling. I?d appreciate feedback on it; also, I don?t think people post electional charts as often as they post horaries, so I hope it will be fun to discuss what some of the differences are. I will confess upfront that this electional chart is for me. I am a writer. I write poems. I have been serious about it for many years and have had a few pieces published, but of late I?ve been very discouraged. It would mean a lot to me to get some work in a good quality journal (NB: this election is not for an entire book, but for four or five poems submitted at once to a journal specializing in poetry. Also, there is no agent involved, as there was with Cornelia's chart--it would be very unusual for a poet to have an agent, at least in the US).

I hope it won't be considered selfish to post this, and that others involved in publishing can learn from discussing this chart.

Here is the chart:



Data for Poetry Submission Election:
June 25, 2009
12:30pm Eastern Daylight Time
29N50'31
81W16'16
AC: 21.16 Virgo
Moon: 14.40 Leo

L1 is Mercury, strongly dignified essentially, in the ninth house of the publisher, but within five degrees of the MC. Because Mercury is also the natural significator of writers and writing, this seems to be a good fit.

L9 is Venus, also strongly dignified essentially and in the ninth house.

The Sun and Moon are in mutual reception by domicile. Moreover, the Moon is in the degree of my natal Sun.

The Moon first sextiles L1-Mercury. Then, the Moon squares Mars, just inside the ninth house cusp. However, Mars is in the exaltation of the Moon, so I think Moon gets a ?pass? through Mars. Since Mars is L3, I am thinking that Mars could represent some kind of communication problem, or perhaps a contractual issue. After squaring Mars, the Moon squares L9-Venus, perfecting the acceptance of the poems by the journal.

Is this a reasonable interpretation of this chart?

Is anyone concerned about Saturn in this chart? Saturn is L5, representing the poems (I put creative work in the fifth house). Venus and Mars are both separating from Saturn--however, since at least one of the publishers is a journal to which I have submitted work in the past, the separating aspect could simply be a reflection of that.

I?ve tried doing some elections in which L5 and L9 connect, instead of L1 and L9. Those charts didn?t seem quite as good to me. Of course, it would be nice to have L9 connecting with both L1 and L5. However, I wasn?t able to come up with a chart accomplishing that. My instinct is that L9 aspecting either L1 or L5 is acceptable.

The Moon?s final aspect in this chart is an opposition to Jupiter, the natural significator of publishing. Would that be considered a ?deal breaker? for an election related to publishing? One concern I have is that I?ll end up getting yet another a ?nice? rejection letter, in which the editor offers praise but still doesn?t take the work. What do others think?

My gratitude to all.

Best regards--
LP

Personally, I'd like to see how your natal chart compares with the election. I spent a lot of years writing by trade, and I wouldn't depend on Mercury to help me out with anything - it's strong, but heavily afflicted in my chart, and only rules 7.

Venus, on the other hand, is cadent, but exalted in Pisces with no afflictions, it's in the 3rd house, and rules the 10th, 5th and 6th. I have Jupiter in 10 ruling 1 and 3 and in generosity with Venus, so that helps.

I don't have all the dates when I submitted articles, poetry, stories, lyrics, etc., but I do have some memory of Venus being promiment during those times. Everybody told me to go for Mercury, and I tried that a few times - it didn't work. This was back in my modern astrology days, and we all mostly went by transit instead of election then, but the principle of which planets rule what and what shape they're in natally matters even then.

Venus did matter. So what's ruling 3, 1, and perhaps 5 and 10 natally for you? Also look at your 9 ruler, as well as 11 and 2 - trust me, you want to get paid for this deal. 'Starving writer' may sound romantic, but it's not so much fun to live through.

Hi
I can?t promise you now that I will have time to help you with your chart, but it would help me if you would give two important informations:
1- your natal chart
2 - the period that you think is feasible to wait for the election. You chose June 25, but your time frame is between what? 24-26, untill July, untill the end of the year? Is there any deadline?

I spent a lot of energy a few years ago trying to use electional charts to improve the outcome of submissions.

It didn't work.

Submission depends, ultimately, on the quality of the work. Neptune gives creative writers strong imaginations--and an equally strong ability to delude themselves about the quality of what they're submitting.

No election is going to turn the sow's ear into a silk purse. So perhaps rather than using an electional chart, the appropriate chart to analyze would be, "Is my work ready for submission?"

LP - it's NOT selfish to post electional charts or horaries for your own concerns. AT ALL. So please don't feel that way. Most of us learn from our own charts, and in a place like this - we have an opportunity to learn from other people's charts, too.

Please, please don't feel bad about that.

No election is going to turn the sow's ear into a silk purse.

This is true, but a radical election will build on what is in the natal chart, and not try to contradict it. You have to check that the promise is there in the natal chart first, and then electional astrology is supposed to work by bringing the promising planets to prominence in the event.
It can only offer the prospect of a bit of fine-tuning, but sometimes that can be very helpful. For example, I bet if you were planning your own wedding, you would probably try to avoid the day when the Sun is square Saturn and the Moon is opposite Mars

• "The election either of day or hour shall then advantage when it is constituted from the nativity; otherwise, though the election be well made, it will not profit" ? Ptolemy?s Centiloquium, VI

(But, yes, you are right about the sow's ear and silk purse. It's no good trying to elect a good time for a wedding, if you haven't first of all picked a good marriage partner).

PS - Sorry I can't look at your chart LP, I am just about to leave for the weekend, and will be offline for a few days.

Cornelia: Is my work ready for submission? Yes. I have studied writing intensively for my entire adult life, received an MFA from a top program, and been previously published etc etc. A couple of my poems have won awards, and once I had a small grant for writing poetry. I have also had my poems vetted by people who are in a position to make good judgements about the quality of my work.

Part of the issue is that the poetry world is small and competitive. Connections help some, but they aren't everything. I want to get into a top journal. It would help my career a lot. I think astrology can help me.

I am not doing this lightly or half-cocked. I'm a serious writer. I did feel somewhat nervous posting this chart, because I figured this issue would probably come up. But it's okay. I understand why you ask. I'd do the same thing. You can't elect for something that isn't promised in the nativity.

Olivia and Yuzuru: if you feel that you need the natal data, is it okay if I send it via PM? I am not completely comfortable posting it on a public website (probably just being paranoid, but that's me. I'm a Leo with a giant dollop of Scorpio).

That's funny, also, what you say about Venus versus Mercury. Interesting. I'll have to go back and take a look at my submission data.

As for the time frame: right now I am not married to any particular time frame. There is a publication competition that I may want to enter, with a June 30 deadline, but I don't have to do that one. My philosophy is to turn things around as quickly as possible, so I try to resubmit work shortly after I get it back. I have some pieces ready to roll now. But frankly, I'd rather look for a good time to submit to a good journal. I don't care about winning another prize so much.

Thanks again.

LP

PS. I see that after I wrote this some other posts came in. Sorry if I am redundant here. Everyone is so great.

PPS. Oh, Deb, PLEASE don't feel as if you have to look the chart. My goodness. You were so generous with your feedback on that other thread. I'm a Lioness, not a hog.

Heck, I wouldn't post my birth data on a public forum either (though I think I had my chart up as an example of something at some point!).

You don't even have to send it if you don't want to - just take a look at what rules what, and what shape it's in. Something that sometimes works: If a house ruler is in horrible shape, check the exaltation ruler or the almuten - and work with whichever one is strongest, whilst trying to fortify the house ruler at least some. Also look at what planets are in which natal houses.

And if you have any successful submission dates or publication dates, then taking a look at those compared to your natal chart might at least give you a starting point to see what's worked for you.

Olivia:

Thanks. Now that you mention it, I did do an electional chart for the grant that I got. It was several years ago. I need to see if I can dig up the data--it's on an old computer.

The comment about working with the exaltation ruler was most interesting. My natal 9th cusp is in Cancer, ruled by my poor Scorpio Moon. BUT exaltation ruler Jupiter is in Pisces; sure he's Rx, but he's in better shape than the forlorn Moon, and also trines her. I could definitely see trying to work with that. That's good feedback.

My natal 10th is ruled by my Leo Sun, but Sun is in his joy in the ninth house (her joy? I'm a Lioness, after all). That's one reason why I thought the position of the Moon was good in this chart.

Thanks again.

LP

Leo-poet,

I did not mean in any way to suggest your work wasn't accomplished, only that we ALL have a tendency to submit too fast.

I have done this time and time again. Then when I look at the work months later with fresh eyes, I see things that I could not see at the time I'd created the work, because after working on the piece, what I thought I had written was so strong in my mind it made it impossible to read only the words on the page.

The Solar return has given me surprisingly strong indicators for success with publication success over time. SA and progressions have only useful in hindsight.

Many years ago I ran into Anthony Louis on an astrology discussion board and he did a horary chart for a publication question I'd posed. His reading was astonishingly accurate. He told me the current project was going to fail but that I would have success with a different project in 18 months. The successful proposal that I did end up selling 18 months later had been sitting in a folder all the while, completely forgotten until I found it when cleaning my files.

Which is why I'm now a fan of horary readings for these kinds of questions.

Hi Cornelia:

we ALL have a tendency to submit too fast.

True, but we can also doubt our work into oblivion. I've known many writers who think just one more revision will make their piece publishable, when what they really need to do is get off the stick and start sending the stuff out. What gets you published is putting your poem or story in front of an editor who likes it.

However, I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to turn Skyscript in to 'Writerscript.' If anyone reading the thread needs writing advice, I recommend the Poets and Writers website: www.pw.org

I do hear what you are saying, Cornelia, about horaries versus electional charts. It is interesting. The reason I'm attracted to the electional route is that I like the idea of actively trying to manifest something, of acting on an intention. With horary, I feel a bit more passive, I think. If the chart doesn't say, "Yes, the American Poetry Review loves your work" I get gloomy. Needless to say, I am no Anthony Louis, and therefore I am unable to see the things in a horary that he can see. I can't ferret out the silver lining in an otherwise negative chart (at least, not now . . . but maybe someday! I'm a Leo so I dream big about everything. )

The other thing that, for me, is attractive about working with elections is that they give deadlines. If I can say to myself, "Monday at 3:00pm this packet is going into the mail," then I plan accordingly. I think if I used a horary, I might have a tendency to just wait for that perfect resounding 'yes' with all the significators lined up by trine in major dignities. Trying to work with elections forces me to think about planetary strengths and weaknesses, about probabilities and improbabilities. If the journal doesn't take the work, then I can say, "the timing is not right" and go back to rethink things. (NB to writers: I might also consider revising the work, depending on what it was; I wouldn't just rely on the astrology).

Well, I guess choosing with election versus horary reflects certain philosophical differences.

On another note: I did find the election I created for the small grant that I got ten years ago. It's actually very flawed, although I can see in certain ways why it did the job. What fascinates me looking at it now is that, while I got the grant, the amount awarded was much smaller than what I asked for--and I think this may be reflected in the chart's various weaknesses. If people are interested, I will post it. It might be useful for folks to look at a 'so so' electional chart.

Thanks again to everyone for the stimulating discussion.

LP

The Horary vs Election distinction does seem to boil down to the distinction between faith and works.

My life pattern has always been that everything important in my life occurs as a response to something, often trivial, that another person does or says to me.

I can take all the initiative I want, but I'm old enough now to know that the patterns in my life unfold in their own good time and always, without exception, after the intervention of those unexpected others which I am unable to control.

Venus in the 7th conjunct Uranus opposite Jupiter may have something to do with that.

I cannot imagine what it would be like to have a life where you could point to something, aim and fire and have some reasonable expectation of it working.

I know astrologers who do use elections very successfully. One has a chart very much like mine (very close to an astro-twin) except that the house emphasis is mostly Eastern whereas my planets are mostly Western and Above the horizon. So in his life things happen because he makes them happen, even though the things that happen to both of us are very similar.

So the base chart probably has a lot to do with whether you could use elections effectively.