The England game was too difficult for me, so I bystepped it! Well done, England!
I'm moving ahead so we can discuss tomorrow's games:
June 19.

SwedenU21 - ItalyU21, 16.00 CST Helsingborg 56N03 12E42
Odds: 3,10 3,25 2,25
Asc 26LI50 MC 8LE12 Moon 13TA45 POF 12VI10
Day Venus, Hour Venus - radical.
The Moon translates the Lady of the Hour to Mars, L7. I suppose Sweden could be counted as playing at home. Venus is trine POF. Venus is also semi-square Sun, L10. The fortune Jupiter is trine the ascendant. There might be some adding up to do here.

BelarusU21 - SerbiaU21, 18.15 CST, Malm? 55N36 13E00
Odds: 7,25 4,50 1,40
Asc 19SC34 MC 13VI28 Moon 15TA05 POF 6LI09
Day Venus, Hour Moon - same powers as asc, but detrimented
Mercury, L10, is trine POF. The favourites get it.

SwedenU21 - ItalyU21

I am going for an Italian victory. The chart radical. Fortune to the ascendant. Lady of the Hour trine POF - all the favourite. Lady of the Hour conjunct Mars, L7, is the guests.
A funny way of spelling it. My guess.

With L1 and L7 being conjunct, these charts are very difficult to analyse. The testimonies seem to cancel each other out. I'm not at all certain about this but with the Moon bringing L1 and L7 together, I'll say a draw for Sweden/Italy.

Belarus/Serbia
It's hard to oppose the odds-on faves in this game. L1 & L7 both trine MC I'd say L10 trine POF is a testimony for Belarus but I don't think it's enough. Hour-ruler and Asc ruler in same sign is a reliable testimony for the faves. I'll go for Serbia to win.

SwedenU21 - ItalyU21 1-2
BelarusU21 - SerbiaU21 0-0

The second result, maybe because there is a testimony both ways. This type of radicality needs to be given particular attention. Where the lord of the hour has the same powers as the sign on the ascendant, it still has to check with the lord of the ascendant to get the OK. In this chart the lord of the ascendant is Mars, who as we know is conj Venus, L7.

At least you got one right I managed to get them the wrong way round! Re Belarus/Serbia I suppose Venus & Mars both trine MC said it all really and the other two testimonies just cancelled each other out. So obvious with hindsight. Oh well, we live and learn

We are, as a matter of fact, getting a lot right at the moment. I'm a perfectionist, but I'm not too worried if the odd one falls out here and there. The details are on record at Skyscript and sooner or later we can work through them and find out what actually happened. A lot of good ideas are coming to surface and that is the way to go!

Judging who would win between SwedenU21 and Germany21 was truly an example of how opposites add up. Ficina made an excellent point regarding the lord of the hour. In sure that there are more secrets to be discovered regarding the question of radicality.

In the game between Belarus and Serbia, Ficina gave the Asc and MC to Belarus. I think that when a match is played at a neutral ground, the MC is given to the favourite - as simple as that.

It is a bit confusing when we have go so many exciting tournements and threads going on all at once.

The Belarus - Serbia game should not be let go of. The fact is that the lord of the Day, Venus; the lord of the Hour, Luna; and lord of the Ascendant - are all closely joined in a cadent house, yet trine the MC.

Mars is Lord of the ascendant, yet he is joined to Venus and the Moon , who share the Day and Hour - and are both dignified in Taurus. Maybe this explains the two way spilt - in which case it is a freak happening that won't be accounted to often. Yet we have to work through these instances to try and decide and uncover the true principles that are working behind.

There is in fact more to be learnt by the charts that misperform than those where everything goes as expected. I also not that the Moon was trine Saturn in the 10th house. Saturn does have that tendency of preventing things get off the ground.

I am still pestered by the Belarus/Serbia game. Why did it end a draw 0-0? Why didn't the favourite, Serbia, get it? The game was played in Malm?, Sweden, on a neutral ground.

My assumtion was that Mercury 6GE22 trine POF 6LI09 would get it for the favourite. The Moon 5TA06 trine Saturn 15VI52 in the 10th I thought added a testimony for the favourite. It did not. Let's think.

I find this problem as intriguing as when it comes to working out the hierachy of testimonies. This spooky feeling came over me that the question of radicality and role played by the lord of the hour had kicked in and taken precedence in both this game, and in the one played by Cork and Dundalk later in the evening (1-2). Why? Success over the recent days has been gained by applying simple principle. Often by giving priority to the aspect received by POF.

In the end my examination of this problem will try to conclude in some sense of simplicity. Try and read the chart simple. Don't get stuck in the complexity of testimonies. But I must add, when I woke up this morning I found myself pounding of the problem of 'lost' football matches AND the problem of missing articles - lost or mislaid. The location of a mislaid article is described by the cusp of the 4th house and it's Lord. The planet the Moon last past over describes where you last used the object. If the Moon last past over Saturn, then you've put the object down and forgotton it. It is mislaid... and for the moment buried.

Football matches are different. We are looking for a winner and we very often cast judgement according to the 10th house and it's lord. That's opposite to mislaid articles.

In the Belarus/Serbia game the Moon, who was Lady of the hour, was applying to the trine of Saturn in the 10th. This 'could' have been considered a moderate testimony for the favorite, or for 'law and order', but primarily Saturn will always put a lid on things or 'cool things down'. Saturn does not have any significator role in the chart as either L1 or L7, but the Moon IS Lady of the Hour and applies to the trine of Saturn. Not yet 'mislaid' or 'buried' - but let's call it a draw...

What about Mercury in Gemini trine POF? Well, when it comes down to it Mercury is a neutral. He isn't really 'that' bothered. He is common to all - both favourites AND underdogs. It was Mercury that was sitting on the cusp of the 7th in the Cork/Dundalk game that was neutral in terms of favouritism. In fact, the game might have been decided by other testimonies. The chart was not radical.

Ficinia said a wonderful thing the other day. She said that the Lord of the Hour with the Lord of the Ascendant will often give advantage to the team represented by the Ascendant. This is great! I don't mind repeating myself, but in the Sweden/Germany match (1-2) I applied this very rule. Venus was LHr and L1, making the chart radical, yet she was joined to Mars L7 - so victory was given to the guests, who also were favourites by odds. This was beautiful! It worked!

The same simple rule could be applied to the game between Belarus/Serbia. It doesn't have to get more difficult than that. The Moon, who was lady of the hour, was in the same sign as Mars and Venus. Mars was L1 and Venus was L7, so the result was split two ways. A draw!

June 22 - it's the final matches in Group B with two games being played at the same time. I hate it when that happens! How can anyone be everywhere at once!!

Finland U21 - Spain U21, 20.45 CST Gothenburg 57N43 11E58
Odds: 8,25 5,00 1,33
Asc 14SG32 MC 26LI12 Moon 0CN59 POF 14SG02
Day Moon, Hour Sun - radical by triplicity and powers

Germany U21 - England U21, 20.45 CST Halmstad 56N36 12E50
Odds: 3,25 2,05 3,60
Asc 16SG41 MC 27LI07 Moon 0CN59 17SG11
Day Moon, Hour Sun - radical by triplicity and powers

If there can be spotted a difference between these games, I would say that Saturn has a stronger hold on the game between Germany and England, and most likely to end a draw. Look at the odds. You don't often see justice spelt out in that manner! Hard to call!

Look at the odds. You don't often see justice spelt out in that manner!

Amazing! I don't remember ever seeing odds like that before.

There's one interesting difference between the two charts. In the first, Jupiter L1 is applying partile trine MC; in the second it's separating. Jupiter is partile conjunct Part of Victory in both charts. Mercury L7 is sextile the Part of Successful Outcome (Asc+Jupiter-Sun) but perhaps not very significant since sextiles are lowest in the aspect hierarchy and tend not to work very reliably.

Using my alternative method, Finland and England are the Jupiter teams. I wonder if they can buck the trend and get something out of these games, especially Finland? It will be a useful test. My record so far in this particular tournament has not been good, so I won't bank on it.

Look at the odds. You don't often see justice spelt out in that manner!

'Expectancy' would have been a better choice of words on my part.

Ficinia wrote:My record so far in this particular tournament has not been good, so I won't bank on it.

I can't remember when we last had a session of collecting so much interesting material!

For the record:
GermanyU21 - EnglandU21 1-1 and everyone was happy. Both teams advance and speculants cashed in on a draw at the lowest odds EVER!

This evening June 23, the final games in Group A:

Belarus U21 - Italy U21, 20.45 CST Malm? 55N36 13E00
Odds: 9,75 4,50 1,33
Asc 19SG00 MC 28LI19 Moon 16CN07 POF 2CP42
Day Mars, Hour Moon - not radical?
The Moon is in a perfect sextile to Saturn through signs of Long Asc.
POF is opposite Sun

Serbia U21 - Sweden U21, 20.45 CST Helsingborg 56N03 12E42
Odds: 2,80 3,15 2,50
Asc 18SG09 MC 28LI00 Moon 16CN07 POF 1CP51
Day Mars, Hour Moon - not radical?
POF is conj Pluto before opposite Sun.

Now this is difficult and the group is open, but it does feels like POF opposite the Sun will give the upper hand to the favourite Italy in the first game. However, POF is conj Pluto, who is opposite the Sun, in the game between Serbia and Sweden. The game is evenly balanced, but it could be Serbia coming up from behind and overthrowing the hopes of the home team favourites. What about Moon sextile Saturn ?