As I said before, I don't wish to argue with you.

If there is a fault in the chart as presented, show how it doesn't fit. So far, you have not, you have only helped confirm it.

Gunhilde wrote:

Chiron in the 3rd talks about his painful relationship with his siblings,

Painful? I don't think so. His relationship with his siblings, especially his sisters, was apparently very close and supportive, despite the fact that he outshone all of them in terms of fame and fortune. The one he had a problem with (and understandably so) was Daddy.

Re: I don't recall him getting involved in worthy causes.

"We are the world/We are the children/We are the ones who make a brighter day/So let's start giving." ..?? He co-wrote this with Lionel Richie? USA for Africa, famine relief? Revenues over 63 MILLION dollars for the charity?

Not involved in worthy causes? ...Perhaps you're not old enough to remember this phenomenon, which is forgiveable, but let's not say he wasn't involved in worthy causes!

GH

The difficulty I see in the chart is that a great deal of strain is expressed through the midheaven. Saturn rules and is aspecting the MC by sextile from an angular house, which describes a lot of hard work and responsibility attached to professional interests but capable of bearing good results. The opposition of Venus brings an extreme of fame, popularity and sexual interest. That?s descriptive of Michael?s early career, except his fame became phenomenal ? other factors such as ascendant-ruler Mercury?s sextile to Jupiter and trine to Saturn contributes but ultimately I think it?s very difficult to distinguish between a great deal of something and a phenomenal amount of something. (If I saw a chart like this at birth I could say that the career will be very important, receive a lot of attention and be the source of much success but also much misery, but I don?t see how I could say ?this person will take the world by storm?).

If we think about the sextile between Saturn and the MC in terms of indicating how easily his public persona is received by public attention then we can understand why someone who was celebrated for his talent and charisma is of no less interest for his peculiarities and sordid secrets. In fact Saturn as the MC-ruler is quite malefic when it is placed on the descendant - the hostile western angle which is associated with attacks from other people or events. And although the Moon is disposed by Jupiter and located upon the 11th house of good fortune and well-received ambitions, it is applying closely to the square Saturn and so forewarning of downfall and the possibility of disgrace. Ascendant-ruler Mercury reinforces this to make it a predictable likelihood by translating via retrograde motion between the sextile of Jupiter (success in early life) to the very malefic 12th house Mars (trouble in later life).

Venus is trine to Saturn - an aspect of very mixed blessings depending upon whether Saturn is capable of expressing responsibility or destruction. Earlier I described Venus' opposition to the MC as too much sexual attention and when we consider that Venus rules the 12th house of tribulation and self-undoing we realise how potentially-damaging this aspect is. Venus is surrounded by malefics (separating from Uranus, applying to Saturn and Mars) and it is closing in on retrograde Mercury.

The highly afflicted state of Mercury, as ruler of the ascendant, describes a very confused and unsettled person, struggling with his persona ? retrograding towards Venus, he is striving to beautify his physical appearance but because of all the malefics involved that only brings further dissatisfaction. Mercury also rules the 5th house and afflicted allows creative talent to diminish in the striving for pleasure and indulgence.

Being in close aspect to the nodes makes Mercury a particularly fateful planet. It is possible to consider Mercury as the ruler of the 5th house of children, applying only to the malefics (immediately to Mars in the 12th, through Saturn, to 12th-ruler Venus) as indicative of his current troubles. To me this reads as a selfish or at least self-indulgent urge to seek out the company of children, mainly boys as this is Mercury applying to Mars, and through this creating his own downfall and self-destruction. There are certainly enough indications of sexual problems in this chart with the 5th ruler retrograding to the square of Mars in the 12th, any aspect of Saturn as ruler of the 8th, and a destructive Venus. The 5th ruler square Mars could be read as abuse, but whether that is self-abuse, or abuse directed towards others or received from others is open to question. Probably it is all of those because there is such a hard collection of difficult energies that could easily explain why MJ seems ?screwed up? to the rest of us.

In all this the Sun is very weak; unaspected except for contact to the outers, a loose application to the square of Saturn, and the separating opposition of the Moon which is translating its influence to the square of Saturn; in other words denying it an outlet. Like asc-ruler Mercury it is buried away in the 4th house showing no real integration with the professional image that the public hates or loves. He clings to isolation and privacy, wants to recapture his ?lost childhood? and would probably climb back in the womb if he could! Since the Sun reveals the essential spirit of a person, the potential of Michael?s true character appears to have been crushed and ignored. The conjunction with Pluto shows a much more profound sense of power and depth of character than his superficial media image allows us to understand but the sextile to Neptune in the 6th reveals a confusion in how to apply it and a dissipation of his essential energy - which might make him ultra-sensitive but it also introduces physical weakness and spiritual confusion. So where is Pluto?s energy going? Pluto is supposed to indicate the principle of transformation, but the flip-side of Pluto, which will often be seen when it is tied to a resistant Sun, is a remarkably obstinate will to remain just as one is! The only transformational urges that MJ appears to be recognising are those he applies to his face.

Many elements of this chart indicate rejection of personal responsibility and maturity. It seems that responsibility has been applied externally and forced upon him but the Moon?s square to Saturn shows that emotionally he rejects it ? probably the single most important cause of all his woes. As Sue says, the transit of Pluto has now reached the conjunction of Saturn, a make or break influence at a time when many other powerful and personally challenging aspects are coming to fruition. I have no doubt that MJ had a hard childhood, though I haven?t explored that in the chart it?s all there, but what is crucial to him now, as Pluto joins Saturn and Uranus opposes the Sun, is that he has to break down the barriers that prevent him from maturing and developing his strength of character. Those barriers seem to be his trait of clinging to a lost past and the ease with which he assigns responsibility for his problems over to other people and unfortunate circumstances. Regardless of the validity of the charges brought against him, the chart shows he has brought his problems upon himself. If he doesn?t see that and accept it, the future looks very grim indeed. With so much affliction in such a hard chart and Saturn ruling the 8th, it could even be the death of him.

In the chart I referred to, he has Aquarius on the MC (there's the freak element) with Uranus angular and conjunct Venus, there's the root for his peculiar sense of aesthetics and his "transformations" of appearance, freaky as they are/were. There is also the incredible personal magnetism and his unusual tastes.

Perhaps Deb can comment on how she views this analysis now in the light of the data being so apparently dubious in 2009. Deb now says she feels impartial and hasn't studied any of the charts, which is odd!

Secondly, it is put forth by many great astrologers, especially rectification-oriented ones that CHARACTER DELINEATION from the Natal is NOT a reliable method in rectification. The tight timing of dynamic structures with tight orbs and unchanging symbolism, IS.

In the chart suggested by me the progr MC is conjunct natal Moon around sept 1 1994 and the quinqunce to natal Venus will be exact around March 1 1995. Finally progr MC will form the exact square to natal Saturn around Feb 1 1997.

The configuration square, trine, quincunce is considerd to be a learning triangle by the Huber School and it obviously means that you are going through a tuff period of learning considering the planets involved when the configuration is activated by transits or progressions.

Saturn is in the natal 7th house, so among many things this is a learning period concerning love relationships. It may also involve eating and addiction problems (Moon) and hard work and resposibility(Saturn).

During the period late 1993 until 1996 MJ had addiction problems, lost weight, married twice and divorced once.
From Sept-96 until oct-97 MJ engaged in the History World Tour performing 82 concerts in 58 countries (talk about hard work!) when progr MC squared Saturn. He also got his first son (responsibility).
There is of course much more to say about this?

BUT the whole of this sequence would have ocurred some 4 years earlier with Starkman?s TOB!