It might be of interest to look at the charts of Aries/Cancer Ingresses for N. Korea, as well as a chart of the solar eclipse that happened a week ago.
I've been interested in this region of the world for quite some time now, especially since they've tested their second nuclear weapon and tactical missiles,also provoking the the US and its allies by their bellicose rhetoric and threats.

Simply, I am bothered with the prospect of war that might start with the attack on S. Korea; I worry much more, though,that the nuclear weapons will be used - that could bring us on the brink of the WW III...and if someone is crazy(and determined) enough to launch nuclear attack on another country, that would definitely be N. Korea(according to some military analysts).

Now, let's see what do we have here, first the Aries Ingress chart

20.3.2009., 20:44 LMT
Pjongjang
ASC 24 Libra 02' MC 27 cancer 48'

Cancer Ingress chart

21.6.2009., 14:46 LMT
Pjongjang
ASC 25 Libra 34' MC 29 Cancer 39'

Solar eclipse chart

22.7.2009., 11:35 LMT
Pjongjang
ASC 11 Libra 41 MC 13 Cancer 20'

It is highly interesting(and important) that in these three charts, the angles are posited in the same signs; the charts of Aries/Cancer ingress differ only slightly as far as the degrees of the ASC and MC are concerned.
I'll try to provide more in depth analysis of the charts in another post.
Hope you're still around, Tom(and others, of course ). Let us try to see if there will be some kind of conflict on Korean peninsula in the near future(up to Libra ingress).

Thanks for the explanations Tom,

Yes. Morin does not spend as much time on these as he acknowledged that accurately casting a chart for such a conjunction was nearly impossible in his day. I wonder if we are that much better at it today.

Kepler also mentioned the Jupiter Saturn conjunction cycle. His Rudolfine tables were very exact for the inner planets and Mars. Edmund Halley however discovered that there were deviations for Jupiter and Saturn. This lead to the theories of Newton on gravity. Today the astronomy is so good that these positions can almost perfectly be predicted. They seem worth astrological research.

In nativities let us propose a chart that has 15 Taurus rising and 20 Aquarius on the MC. Every once in a while, the solar return will have the ASC in Taurus and the MC in Aquarius. Not always both at the same time, but that can happen, too. In those years, when Taurus is on the ASC and/or Aquarius is on the MC, those charts are considered particularly powerful. The closer the degrees in the revolution match the degree of the nativity, the more powerful it is.

In that case the age of 33 is an interesting year because (when takenfor the same place of birth) the angles will be close conjunct to the natal ones)

The Great Depression did not end in the 1930s. Recent intelligent scrutiny has shown that WWII didn't end it either. In the US, the stock market crash of 1937 was in many ways worse than the crash in 1929. The American Gross National Product (as it was called in those days. It is the Gross Domestic Product today or GDP) didn't hit its pre 1929 levels until 1955; 10 years after the war ended.

Interesting, so it continued like a smouldering fire. Some economics believe that today's crisis will also require a very long time to recover.

Let us try to see if there will be some kind of conflict on Korean peninsula in the near future(up to Libra ingress).

With the last week's solar eclipse in 29?26' Cancer the MC's of these ingress charts look very interesting.

What stands out in the Aries Ingress:

- the ruler of the primordial point(DESC in Aries, the house traditionally associated with war) is Mars in his triplicity, posited in the water sign of Pisces in the 5th(by division) but in the 6th sign. Mars is conjunct royal fixed star Fomalhaut which may signify "malevolence and disasters of sublime character and scope". Mars is in antiscia relationship with the degree of ASC. However, there's no malefic planet on the DESC itself and the only planet on an angle(by division) is Jupiter in Aquarius, which is actually good and desirable, but he is peregrine and out of sect; therefore I think that Mars is more dominant(I may be wrong, of course). The position of Mars in Pisces may presage accidents/incidents connected with sea which afflict the entire nation, provoking response from enemies(antiscion to the ASC and simultaneously, contraantiscion with the DESC).

The ruler of the ASC degree, Venus, is severely debilitated - retrograde, in detriment, heading into combustion, cadent, in antiscion with Saturn from the 12th sign, not beheld by her dispositor Mars...she is dignified by term, but that is pretty weak. For the entire nation, this means trouble.

Cancer Ingress as already stated, holds almost the same degrees at the angles. Now, Mars is in Taurus in a day chart, out of sect in the 7th by division and in the 8th sign(neither is good), oriental and in conjunction with Venus, trine Saturn from the 12th sign...Venus is essentially very strong, but she rules the 8th house(along with ASC), therefore I wonder if she can bring anything good into the bargain here - I don't think so. The rulers of the ASC and DESC in conjunction in the 8th sign...looks ominous, especially if we consider that the Moon this time is in conjunction with the warlike,royal Aldebaran in the 8th(by division) and Mercury, which rules the 9th and the 12(by sign). Foreign relations and secret enemies issues come together with the ruler of the people in the house of death...

Now, the solar eclipse horoscope repeats the angles again - this time the Venus of the Aries Ingress is exactly on the degree of DESC of the eclipse chart. The eclipse itself sits exactly on the MC of the cancer Ingress, as Eddy pointed out, which means that in this quarter of the year there'll probably come a great alteration in the government of the N. Korea. Kim Yong Ill is really ill these days(according to the available information) and he has already named a successor. I think he will die by the time of Libra Ingress, but that's just a guess; the eclipse of the Sun in the 10th was always a bad sign for the ruler of the country.

The rulers of the eclipse are Saturn(almuten of the preceding angle of the ASC) and Jupiter, the exaltation ruler of the eclipse in Cancer; Saturn is in the 12th, Jupiter is retrograde in the 5th(8th from the 10th - the death of the ruler) in Aquarius.
Let's get back to Mars...he's in the 9th this time, conjunct Aldebaran and ME/MO conjunction from the previous cancer Ingress.
Interestingly, in these three charts Venus is always in some kind of relatiosnhip with Saturn; this time it is a closely applying square. I think this aptly describes(among other things) the poverty and want of the people of N. Korea.

I also checked the coming lunations to see if there will be one that has the same angles as these three charts...and there is one, which will hapen on the 6.8. 2009.
This time, Venus is on MC; Mars is in the place of Venus(in the 9th) from eclipse chart, applying to Saturn by square. The Moon, after its separation from the Sun, applies to Mars by trine...

I don't really think that there'll be war in the coming months, but perhaps just minor incidents/skirmishes in the field of diplomacy(the 9th),additional testing of missiles, the kinds we've seen so far...but of course, I may be wrong. For the WW III to happen, I'd expect the charts to be much more ominous than these(if we compare them with the charts that presaged WW II).

What do you think?

Very nice. This is what I believe Morin is teaching.

I also checked the coming lunations to see if there will be one that has the same angles as these three charts...and there is one, which will happen on the 6.8. 2009.

Interesting. Obama's birthday is Aug 4. N. Korea has launched missiles on or near significant US Holidays: Memorial Day in May and Independence Day in July. Following this date would be Labor Day September 7 this year.

For the WW III to happen, I'd expect the charts to be much more ominous than these(if we compare them with the charts that presaged WW II).

I agree, but we would have to cast the same charts for the likely combatants. WWI is the best example of an historical chain reaction, but WWII wasn't far behind in that area. Something similar could happen here. Japan is key in that regard. I'm not sure of the status of Japan's military and what American obligations are to Japan in view of the surrender in 1945. Is any of that still in effect? If Japan is attacked even accidentally it could well draw in the US and then the chain reaction begins. There is more to this than N. Korean bluster. Might want to look at Hawaii, too.

Nice job.

Tom

I had a look at the angles at Tokyo of the 22 july eclipse.
MC 26?23' Cancer (with Sun, Moon and Mercury close to MC in house X).
Asc. 23?31' Libra.

Japan is often quite involved in North Korean matters. Several times N-Korea shot a test missile (without explosive substances) over marine territory of Japan. According to Ptolemy Tetrabiblos II.6 rule for the effect of an eclipse, the effect of it will last 3.5 years. In ca. 3 years Saturn will be square to the eclipse point and conjunct and square Japan's Asc. respectively MC of the eclipse chart. However the effect of this year's ingresses will have gone I assume. Is in general some prolonged effect of an ingress / solar return possible, overlapping the next one? Or is the 'old' one immediately superceded by the new (Aries) ingress / solar return?

As Mars is going to transit the eclipse point, N-Korea's ingress MC's and Japan's eclipse moment MC in mid October, it would be interesting to observe the political situation of these countries in that month.

Eddy wrote:I had a look at the angles at Tokyo of the 22 july eclipse.
MC 26?23' Cancer (with Sun, Moon and Mercury close to MC in house X).
Asc. 23?31' Libra.

Japan is often quite involved in North Korean matters. Several times N-Korea shot a test missile (without explosive substances) over marine territory of Japan. According to Ptolemy Tetrabiblos II.6 rule for the effect of an eclipse, the effect of it will last 3.5 years.

According Ptolemy and Renaissance astrologers who follow him, like Lilly, effects are not immediate.
Being at MC, midway between ASC and DESC, effects will start after 6 months, with its effects in the middle part of the three years.

Even so it's difficult to say when the maximum effect.
In the case of France IIWW war started in 1939 but France was really attacked in May 1940, with the next Ingress,

Italians know quite well because shared with Hitler this shame, Mussolini declared war to France, when Paris was already in German hands.
It's really beautiful we are out of this and this is just history.

p.s. I edited the post a little, I was hasty as usually, my Mars

margherita

Thanks, Tom

I will also look at Ingresses for the US, the main and most dangerous adversary of N. Korea.
What I forgot to mention in my previous post about lunation chart, the possible critical days are probably 15.-17.(transiting Moon conjunct Mars) and 28.,29. 8.2009. (opposition).

Gjiada,
although France was actually attacked in May 1940., it was technically already at war with Third Reich since it invaded Poland in the Fall of 1939.

Gjiada wrote:According Ptolemy and Renaissance astrologers who follow him, like Lilly, effects are not immediate.
Being at MC, midway between ASC and DESC, effects will start after 20 months, a little more than 1 year and a half.

Hi Margherita,

Comparing this with Ptolemy's text in Tetr.II.6 I'm a bit confused.

Tetrabiblos wrote:The nature of the beginnings and of the more important intensifications of the events, however, are deduced from the position of the place of the eclipse relative to the centres. For if the place of the eclipse falls on the eastern horizon, this signifies that the beginning of the predicted event is in the first period of four months from the time of the eclipse and that its important intensifications lie in the first third of the entire period of its duration; if on the mid-heaven, in the second four months and the middle third; if upon the western horizon, in the third four months and the final third.

20 months is halfway the 3.5 year period, this I can understand. But when I read Ptolemy it looks to me like he means that (in the eclipse on MC case) the beginning of the event starts in the second four months, i.e. 4-8 months after the eclipse, say 6 months, with the most intense period in the middle of the 3.5 years, thus at 20 months.

Eddy wrote:[ But when I read Ptolemy it looks to me like he means that (in the eclipse on MC case) the beginning of the event starts in the second four months, i.e. 4-8 months after the eclipse, say 6 months, with the most intense period in the middle of the 3.5 years, thus at 20 months.

Yes, I re-edited my post a little while after having written, but you should have read it before I corrected myself.

In Ptolemy we should separate beginning of the effects, in this case after six months, from the duration, which is here 42 months

42 months/3=14 months

So effects will start 6 months from end July 2009, for the end of January 2010, will be light for the following 14 months, and we will have the maximum influence from March 2011, the second 14 months.

Hope I'm right this time

margherita

cor scorpii wrote: Gjiada,
although France was actually attacked in May 1940., it was technically already at war with Third Reich since it invaded Poland in the Fall of 1939.

Yes, but it seems to remember they just put soldiers behind Maginot line, because they believed German troops would try to attack from there.

Then Hitler invaded France 10th May 1940, the famous - for Italians at least - "guerra lampo", quick war maybe?

I would look at 1940 Ingress, rather than 1939 for Paris

margherita

Ah, thanks Margherita, it's clearer now. However I find this rule a bit strange that before those six months there would be no influence of the eclipse. Now I think longer about it, if for example the 17 August 1999 Turkish earthquake has for sure any relationship with the 11 August 1999 eclipse which occurred in the afternoon in Turkey, then the effect came 'too early' when looking at Ptolemy's rule. Perhaps these long term effects are more politically related than with nature. But I will keep an eye on that Mars over the eclipsepoint conjunction in mid October anyway.