I really need your help on this chart for the timing .

I've looked at both my daughter's S/R for this year as well as her husband's and of course this Horary Chart .

I cannot see anything positive in any of them.

The house is for sale, he has moved to his new job 3,000 miles away and she is alone with the kids to sell off this White Elephant of a house.

There are showings, which surprised me because it's in a remote type of area, yet quite a few so far. Maybe they are just "lookers?" I don't know.

What I do know is that she is a Cancer Sun, with Virgo Moon and used to things going easily for them. This chart looks troublesome to me?

Does anyone know about timing, and how to time when she will sell this house?

The house is priced right, far less then the neighbors who try to sell in this conclave. Much below actually, over 50,000. less already.
It's just a very remote type area not near a big city.

Appreciate any feedback.

What I see thus far are critical degrees everywhere I look, the Fixed Star
"Altair" and she is certainly ambitious to sell the house conj. the NN
Venus (ruler of daughter) is square to the Vertex and square to the AC.

The Sun ? is conjunct "Dubhe" however perhaps I should not be looking at this fixed star in the chart in the 11th house....The house of Hopes,Dreams and Wishes.

How about the POF in the 8th house of "other's assets" which is square to the ambitious NN ?

Moon (end of matters) opposite Saturn , opposite Mercury and square Mars, what to make of this?

The timing should be progressed, but I'm unsure how to do this accurately.

Appreciate any help along these lines

I'm wondering whether or not her NN at 0Degrees and Pluto at 0Degrees should be taken into consideration and if so to what ends?

I would think that the 1 degree at the angles is somewhat critical for this chart, as is her Ceres opposing to Juno, but these are not traditional Horary symbols.

If I am represented in house 10, Venus it appears that she as the eldest daughter would appear also to be represented by Venus as Ruler of the 2nd house?

The 4th house (end of matters) doesn't help either in this regard to answer my question from what I can see, with the BML and the NN in there the same as the degree of Pluto on the cusp.

I'm going in circles with this chart and would appreciate some help .

Yikes, well pretty much all of the sigs involved here are in cadent houses in mutable signs = time unknown, with the exception of the seller (L1 = Venus in angular 10th, but peregrine). The ascendant degree is far too early to be fit to judge, meaning the outcome is not decided, which is why everything is saying "time unknown, a long while." Possibly a unit of years.

L1 Seller = Venus in Cancer in 10th, peregrine. Disposited by the Moon in Pisces peregrine in the 6th (cadent and mutable sign) - a weak price.

L7 Potential buyer = Mars in Gemini in the 9th (cadent), dignity by face. Has triplicity to the house, which is some interest.

L4 The House = Saturn in Virgo in the 12th (cadent - also showing the secludedness of the house), dignity by term. An OK house, but in a remote area.

L10 The Price = Moon in Pisces in the 6th (peregrine, cadent). Weak price, but Mars' triplicity, so it is to appeal to the buyers.

With the uncertainty due to the ascendant degree, the weak sigs, and the negative aspects involved between the sigs (squares and oppositions) and lack of mutual reception (with the exception of the Moon to Venus), I'd imagine the seller is going to require some patience if they want to sell this house.

http://www.thespiritconnect.com/article-lilly3.html
http://leephd.blogspot.com/2006/07/ency ... ology.html

TIMING IN THE CHART
There are two scales of time: symbolic, and ephemeris. Symbolic time (a difference of degrees between the two Significators applied to produce time units through the following table) is used most of the time, unless some significant ephemeris event itself may impact the outcome. If, for example, a significant planet is about to go retrograde or direct, it?s common to refer to the actual station date as the critical timing date.

TABLE FOR THE MEASURE OF TIME

Cardinal Signs
Angular Houses: Days
Succeedent Houses: Weeks
Cadent Houses: Months

Mutable Signs
Angular Houses: Weeks
Succeedent Houses: Months
Cadent Houses: Years

Fixed Signs
Angular Houses: Months
Succeedent Houses: Years
Cadent Houses: Time Unknown ? Very Long

Oh my, I thought so..... but I didn't realize about the time involved, the cadent houses, looks to be a long time involved.
She better get prepared for the duration then?


I sincerely appreciate your advising me how to do the timing, as I was at a loss here, and even forgot for a moment, "too early to read" the chart for the early AC. However, according to what I'm hearing, it's really not too early afterall....and the chart is radical or can be read.

Thanks again, if anything else pops up here, I'll be sure to check on the thread as well as let everyone know the outcome.

As I said, the husband is gone, so it's going to be hard on her now.

Near sheep farms in the middle of nowheresville Well, not really but it's such a location that only certain people, (like the inventor of the
Slinky toy) lived there in a mansion, and there are others who own businesses that live out there as well as locals like doctors for the area, etc.

I tried to warn her not to buy there,.........well you know what that's like!
Her husband thought it was "their dream home" and it's turned into the nightmare home because of it's remoteness to the city and any kind of life for her.

Thanks again,

I'll check the links too.

Deb M.

leomoon wrote:Oh my, I thought so..... but I didn't realize about the time involved, the cadent houses, looks to be a long time involved.
She better get prepared for the duration then?

Or not!

While cadent houses (and planets inside them) are accidentally weak, angles are traditionally considered to be the most potent and influential areas in the chart and, thus, planets inside them are accidentally dignified (freedom and potential to act). Planets in angles (angular/cardinal houses) are powerful, swift, liberated. Cadent planets are slow, poorly placed, lack the power to act. Depending on the type of the question- those are not good places for the rulers of lost objects, for people who want to achieve something, they suggest low prices, falls from grace etc. Likewise, when angular- the planets are suggesting that the object will most likely be (easily) recovered(not the 7th), high prices, being in control (able to make things happen) etc.

But, at the same time- J. Frawley suggest a bit different approach especially when it comes to timing questions. Instead of calling them cardinal, he suggests that the angular houses equate with fixed signs that are by nature inert and- slow. At the same time, cadent houses (literally- "falling"/"fallen" houses), in his opinion, actually indicate swiftness as things might happen ("fall") unexpectedly! Of course, he also suggest caution as things will pretty much depend upon the nature of the Question. Angular planets are still accidentally dignified meaning that they have more power to act and seeing a ruler of a person who is determined to achieve something in a cadent house just might suggest a slow paced movement as the person lacks the potential to get things done easily. But when his/her ruler placed in one of the angles- the determined person gets more power to act and it is an obvious indication of swiftness. But, at the same time- angular house cannot help an object (i'll use Frawley's example here) like a check to arrive faster than it can as an object cannot act i.e. it cannot use the potential promised by its angular placement in order to speed up its own arrival. While its placement inside a cadent house could actually suggest that it might arrive sooner than expected (fall).
Considering the nature of your question, it could be the case here as well (I haven't really spent much time examining the chart, i have to add!)

I don't know how much sense this all makes to you but you can find John Frawley's areticle about timing in Horary > HERE

Of course, I'm not suggesting that this is a better approach, I just thought you might want to hear other approaches as well.

There?s actually only one approach at use here, but it?s being used in a different way. The principle is that angularity gives force, so a planet that is angular is able to achieve its intention more quickly than a planet that is cadent. Let?s say that the indication of perfection was the querent?s significator moving to the trine of the quesited?s significator. If the querent?s significator is angular it will have a more forceful influence than if it was cadent, and its influence will make the event happen more quickly.

But if the querent does not want something to happen, or is trying to evade an inevitable loss (say the loss of a job ? or having to repay a debt), then being angular would give the querent?s significator more influence to resist the situation, so it can hold out longer. If it were cadent then its influence is weak and its force for resistance is low, so the event happens quickly because the defence collapses. This is the only reason why there appears to be a contradictory explanation in the traditional sources ? but as you can see, the underlying principle is consistent, it only varies according to context.

Thanks for your link, Aglaya. Perhaps the following summary of timing according to J. Frawley, The Horary Textbook, p. 131, beginning with a little table is helpful too.

Time units -
Shortest: cardinal sign - cadent house
Medium: mutable sign - succedent house
Longest: fixed sign - angular house

Exception: Volition can make angular fast and cadent slow

First chose the time units. In Deb M.'s house question these would probably be weeks, months, years.

Then take the significator applying to perfection, i.e. its sign and house position; if sign and house agree with the table above they give the shortest, midium or longest time unit accordingly. If they are mixed (for example mutable sign, angular house) they give the medium time unit.

In case of the example above and 15 degrees to perfection the event would be after 15 months (medium time unit).

Even thouh there are certain reservations against some views of Frawley, and these with right, his advice as to timing has often proofed very helpful to me.

Johannes

"Deb"]Let?s say that the indication of perfection was the querent?s significator moving to the trine of the quesited?s significator. If the querent?s significator is angular it will have a more forceful influence than if it was cadent, and its influence will make the event happen more quickly.

The querent significator being me or Venus the quesited being the Moon?

Re: Johannes:
If they are mixed (for example mutable sign, angular house) they give the medium time unit.

In case of the example above and 15 degrees to perfection the event would be after 15 months (medium time unit).

To clarify, Venus (angular 10th house and the Moon (cadent 6th muteable)

Sorry if I'm missing the obvious here, but which planets are we talking about (the Querent's and the Quesited) to create the 15 degree gap towards a perfection?

I thought the Moon indicates the end of the matter?

Sorry Johannes but I don?t think that is too helpful because it perpetuates the confusion.

Shortest: cardinal sign - cadent house
? take the significator applying to perfection, i.e. its sign and house position; if sign and house agree with the table above they give the shortest, midium or longest time unit accordingly.

This is what I disagree with.
If the significator applying to perfection is cadent then the application is weaker and this represents a longer expectation (as per my post above). This is not an alternative approach to John?s, it is the only traditional approach. I just don?t think it is explained very clearly in John?s article which is why it causes confusion. The traditional passage that refers to the timing being quicker when the querent?s significator is cadent, concerns the need to pay money to someone ? so the weakness of the querent?s position means that the money has to be repaid more quickly. We want to see the significator that is applying and creating the perfection to be strong, well placed and making a good aspect in a property chart ? which signifies that the interested party has the willingness to make an offer and the means to make it happen.

Hope that answers your question LP. I?m afraid I?m only talking about the general principle here because the early ascendant in your horary makes me reluctant to offer too much of an opinion about it. You are the querent, asking about your daughter?s house sale ? so I presume the person at the centre of the situation is not involved in the asking of the horary? That makes me wary, especially when the question is from a mother, because mothers do tend to absorb the worry of the worst case scenarios for their children. The early ascendant could relate to that ? that the question is not yet properly framed and is being asked prematurely. But this is only my opinion. I take the considerations before judgement quite seriously and if I don?t understand the reason for their presence in the chart I just prefer not to get too involved.

Sorry, Deb M., my example and the "15 degrees" are only an example in my quote and are not connected to your question!

Please excuse me for now, I'll come back later!

Thank you Deb & Johannes. What you are saying about the "judgements" makes perfect sense to me too.
thanks as well to Tanit and Aglaya the earlier responders to this thread.

I look forward to Johannes or others helping me understand the two
significators for the next time and future charts ....more clearly then I currently do.

I'ts obvious I am confused by the two and the degrees then.