Hi,

In the last few weeks I've had TWO separate occasions where I have got work/services in my home and feel a bit ripped off. One was a plumber who I am certain replaced the PCB in the boiler unnecessarily (and I have pretty good evidence of this). The other is a Structural Engineer who agreed a price with me and subsequently billed me twice as much, stating there was a minimum charge. I was VERY explicit when I was arranging it about exactly how much it would likely be and was not told about any minimum payment at this time.

I FULLY intend NOT to pay these bills in full, and intend to force them to drop the bill or take me to court.

The question was asked more in regards to the plumber (only because I was posting his letter at the time) but probably really applies to both.

The chart is for 9.50 a.m. 23rd October 2009, Edinburgh. Asc 16.57 Scorpio.

I would say the plumber could be the 6th house of paid servants although I'm not sure. He could be the 7th house and I think the Engineer is definitely the 7th as he came round to advise me on something.

By antiscion the part of fortune is on the second house cusp and the node is also quite close also by antiscion. Also by Antiscion Jupiter (2nd house ruler - my money) is within a few degrees of the ascendant. I think these are all good testimonies.

Mars is in the 9th - does this show me going to court. It is also on Algol by antiscion - am I crazy not just to pay this? (I don't care - I'm NOT paying!) Algol itself is in the 7th house. Mars also rules the 6th so maybe I will go to court with the plumber situation.

The Sun will square Mars from the 12th house and there is a mutual reception between these. IF the plumber is the 6th house then it is difficult to judge this one as we are both Mars. 9th cusp showing legal matters is in Cancer and the Moon is in the sign of Mars' exaltation - again difficult if we were both Mars. But Cancer on the 9th cusp is the sign of exaltation of Jupiter - my money.

7th ruler is Venus and Venus is strong in her own sign and does perfect her trine to Jupiter. But at that time she will be under Sun's beams.

Sun is co-ruler of 9th as Leo intercepted in 9th. Wondering if that meant there would be legal involvement but not an actual court case. No idea how these things work!

The only other thing I can see is Mercury by antiscia is 1 degree before the 4th cusp. Mercury is the turned second, so if that is the end of the matter then maybe the money they would have to pay to take me to court would discourage them.

It's not a huge amount of money - probably about ?200 from the plumber and ?130 or so for the SEs.

What is the question, Susan?
Tienka

sorry, the question is the title of your post
Tienka

Hi,

Yes, I just want to know if I will end up having to pay and I guess will that involve legal proceedings against me, and if so will I win?

You could use the triplicity rulers of the 6th for the tradesmen - first triplicity ruler for the first one, the out-of-sect ruler for the second one.

If so, then Tradesman 1 is Sun, Tradesman 2 is Jupiter, and you're Mars.

It looks like you may be able to come to some settlement with Tradesman 1, as you mentioned the Sun-Mars square, and he's in a bit of a weaker position than you are (Mars is stronger than Sun).

As to Mars and Jupiter (second Tradesman) that's more problematic - Jupiter is in its own term, which may indicate that he did the work properly, and I can't see any aspects bringing the two together. And you're peregrine, while he's not, both cadent though.

Detrimented Moon in 2 just past the Sun's square probably indicates some financial loss for you, but you've also got the North Node in 2, so you shouldn't come out of it too badly. That might mean paying the one, and not the other.

Just some thoughts.

Thanks for that. Are they both tradesmen? I didn't employ the Structural engineer to do work for me - only as an adviser so that's why I thought the 7th house for him. But not too sure.

Anyway, it does make sense what you say because I think I do have a lot going for me in the first one. I have it all documented what occurred - I have taken advice from the Home Owners Help Line of the boiler manufacturer and they agree that it is highly unlikely that I needed the new part that he replaced, and also questioned the fact that replacing the part made no improvement. I have witnesses who saw what went on etc.

As regards the engineer, I did not get it in writing what their charge was, so it is really my word v theirs. Maybe I'm jumping the gun here though, because I have written a letter and the actual engineer involved is on holiday and maybe on his return he might verify that it is just a mistake!

I'll keep you all posted!

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Also should have mentioned the structural engineer did his job fine, the problem was that the price I was given on the phone, very explicitly stated that there was an hourly fee and I clarified how long it would take. I was told he would spend up to an hour in my home and to get a written report there would be another hour charge. He was here for half an hour roughly and if it takes an hour to write an A4 sheet they need a new secretary! In any case that would be two hours at ?70 an hour - and that fact was clarified by me over the phone. The invoice came and was 'subject to their minimum charge' which came in at ?250 plus VAT. As I say I was very explicit on the phone about this and was told that I would be looking at probably two hours fee - it was at this point that the minimum fee should have been mentioned.

Thanks again.

HQ

Regarding the structural engineer - do you need to ask a horary for this one? What is your small claims procedure in Scotland? In England in order to make a claim under ?1000 you need to fill out a form and pay a fee of ?100ish. As only ?110 (plus VAT) is in dispute I'd say you had him over a barrel. I'd pay what you agreed on the phone ?161 (?140 plus 15% VAT) and enclose a covering letter explaining that this is the fee that you agreed with him beforehand.

C

Hi, I am with you on this! I have no intentions of paying this! That's why I'm wondering if I'll end up in court! Now I know through small claims they would end up having to pay etc. but you know some people will do this anyway just out of principle.

Consumer Direct have advised me of the letter I need to write etc. but that letter stated that services have to be carried out for a fair price. I am not disputing the fairness of the price - only the actual price quoted. Also they did not advise calling up first to see if I could resolve it on the phone - which I really think is a bit absurd. I did call up first and got through to an ill-mannered, snooty c0w (forgive me!) but am confident that it all might be resolved once this dude comes back from his hols!

The disputed amount with the plumber is around ?230-?240. I can't see how he thinks he would stand a chance though!

Thanks.

Hi HQ!

Your signifiers are Mars (L1) and The Moon, your money is signified by Jupiter (L2).
L2 is slow moving and in a fixed sign, so I guess you really don't want to be parted from your money. Unfortunately, L2 is aspected by Venus (L7) which signifies the wages (invoice) of your servant (plumber). As L7 is strongly dignified, it suggests to me you may well end up paying the full sum to the plumber.
I'm unsure which is the signifier of the engineer, but will have a think about this in case I am able to bring you more news you don't want!

Regards,

Pipedreamer (no relation to the plumber)

Hi Pipedreamer,

Thanks for your input. I would say the engineer is the 7th house.

I appreciate your comments, but since I haven't paid either of these people anything yet, and am not therefore looking for a refund, I am unsure why the turned second house would come into it. I would have thought that their fee represents the part of my money that they want and would therefore be ruled by my second house - their fee and my money are kind of one and the same are they not?

Hi HQ!

Thought about this a bit more and have decided to leave out the money.

You get Mars and the Moon as signifiers, so the plumber cannot have Mars too as L6. As Mars is in Leo, I would give the plumber the Sun, which is in Scorpio.
The structual engineer is your advisor, so he gets Jupiter as L2.

Mars, the Sun and Jupiter are all in fixed signs, indicating no-one wants to compromise. However, the Sun will square Mars, so I anticipate that the plumber will reach an agreement with you, especially as you share mutual reception suggesting some liking and respect for one another.
I assume Mars will aspect Jupiter (haven't checked) so you may agree terms with the engineer, but the opposition suggests neither of you will wish to do business together again!

Look forward to any update,

P.