Display posts from previous
Sort by

Temperament

1 by Tom
I recently finished reading The Four Temperaments: A Rediscovery of the Ancient Way of Understanding Health and Character by Randy Rolfe (Marlowe and Company, 2002) and thought I'd pass along some information about it and astrology. This is not an astrology book. Ms Rolfe is not anti-astrology either and in fact welcomes astrologers to the topic. She is a nutritionist and holds a law degree. She became interested in the temperament of four humors when she was a teenager, and maintained the interest throughout her life. Her hobby became an avocation and her avocation became a book.

For many traditional astrologers temperament was the first thing worked out prior to a full natal delineation or perhaps the second after length of life. It is the basis for all that follows, yet it is hardly mentioned in some traditional texts, and never in modern astrology. However it seems only common sense that a highly choleric individual would react to, say a Mars - Jupiter square differently than the phlegmatic would react to the same configuration. The problem sets in when contemporary astrologers look at the temperament and assume it will be the same as the personality ("persona" is probably more accurate). It isn't and in fact what we readily see may not be what the person is at his or her core. Since modern astrologers are geared towards looking at everything in the chart as part of the personality, it makes no sense that a person we see as perpetually angry is really sanguine or melancholic by temperament. It just won't compute. Rolfe's book can help with this.

Temperament, both in and out of astrology, has much to do with the body as it does with the mind. In fact temperament theory predates horoscopic astrology by centuries, so those that incorporated it into astrology had a good grasp of its nature as it was so ingrained in the culture by the time astrology became well known. Rolfe gives sketches of facial characteristics and body types to help identify the various temperaments or humors as they are also called. Since most people are a combination of two or more humors a little imagination is required to blend the combinations.

Ancient medicine treated diseases and people according to their temperaments. We can see this in more modern works, Culpeper, for example. The idea is to seek a balance. If things are too hot, cool them off. If they are too dry, moisten them or vice versa. Rolfe does this with diet and exercise she claims will work with the various humors. Relationships are also covered. As we seek balance in our bodies in order to be at our best, the same is true in our relationships. We seek to find a kind of balance in that area as well. And finally some people are better suited to some careers than they are to others. This is a given. If we know a person is highly choleric and take away any chance of leadership opportunity, the native will be miserable. Or should we suggest a sanguine take up life in a monastery, he nor we will be pleased with the outcome.

These are the sorts of things that can be discussed during an astrological consultation. The temperament isn't all we will take into consideration, but we will miss a great deal if we ignore it.

Rolfe gives a test early on and the reader can quickly determine his or her dominant humor and read on accordingly. How does this test stack up with astrological determination? It's no substitute. To use an extreme example, I tested strongly melancholic. I have no earth in my chart (except the MC which is not used in the astrological determination of temperament). Furthermore I was born in the winter (phlegmatic) and have a choleric Moon (second quarter). Yet Ms Rolfe says I am melancholic and I do exhibit the melancholic characteristics covered in her book, but not the melancholic attributes mentioned in the astrology texts. Others may work out the same way in both. I've done no comparisons.

There are other points that the astrologer needs to keep in mind. The body types do not necessarily match the astrology texts. The traditional authors usually describe the choleric as medium height or slightly above, and a stocky build. Think of the warriors shown on ancient pottery or a modern European football player. ROlfe describes the choleric as tall with a "V" shaped upper torso (think Tiger Woods) with longer muscles. Both describe well formed muscular structure. Rolfe is describing contemporary Westerners. Culpeper was describing typical 17th century men. There may be a way to reconcile this sort of thing.

She actually uses the word "mercurial" to describe the melancholic, and I was taken aback by that, but Mercury rules and is exalted in Virgo, a melancholic sign. Maybe Mercury needs to be considered in assessing this temperament.

I draw the line where it says an ideal profession for a phlegmatic is a soldier. She looks at the military as service, and it is, but combat is a service better suited to cholerics.

Overall, coming to grips with this book is a great way to understand the concept and get a handle on the temperaments and how they manifest and can be put to good use. The differences between her take and astrology's can be reconciled one way or another. It's not difficult to become adept at identifying types either. I'll give a single anecdote.

This past Saturday I was out by myself and stopped in a cafe for lunch. I was sitting at an empty table when three young women (early to mid 20s at the oldest) sat down at the table next to mine and were gabbing amiably. I couldn't concentrate on my book and I looked up and watched as unobtrusively as I could. One woman was doing almost all of the talking. She had her back to me, so I couldn't see her face and as they were all sitting, I didn't get a precise idea of the body types of any of them, but I could pick out obvious physical characteristics. The woman to the talker's left looked phlegmatic and her reactions to the speaker were almost entirely emotional. She hung on every word and her responses when they came at all were accompanied by sighs and smiles all of which were indicating emotional involvement with the speaker's topic (I couldn't make out the topic or topics for that matter; it was too noisy). The more slender woman to the speaker's right was, I determined by the shape of her face and her long thin muscles, melancholic. She appeared to analyzed everything that was said and her interest was more analytical than emotional. Both were content to let the speaker do all the talking. My guess is the speaker was either choleric or sanguine, but that is more of a guess than a detailed observation.

They were pretty obviously friends and they were reacting to the temperament that balanced their own. The phlegmatic (cold and moist) would be an ideal complement to a choleric (warm and dry) but still would become involved (heat) with a sanguine (warm and moist). The melancholic would also compliment the warmer speaker. The phlegmatic and melancholic did not interact so much with each other as they both did with the speaker. The cold would prevent that, even as the moist and dry did compliment each other.

We could do the same thing internally, too. A choleric phlegmatic, might exhibit the inner turmoil extremes those opposites could produce, or might be balanced by them. Best to let the chart tell us that.

The book can be found on line for $5 US (plus shipping) or less if one hunts . It's an easy read and the topic is fascinating, or I found it to be so. It sure beats "His Mars is on my Venus so are we soul mates?" No if you're both choleric you'll fight a lot.

Give yourselves Christmas present and buy this one.

2 by dr. farr
Tom is quite right in his enthusiastic recommendation of this book-it is an excellent outline of the concept of temperament and-looked at from our astrological point of view-provides mportant insights for practitioners using traditional astrology techniques. Remember also that temperament concepts connect ALL of the ancient traditions: hellenic/hermetic, vedic (the dosha's of Ayurveda) and East Asian (the 5 elements of Chinese medicine-and of classical Chinese astrology as well), although expressed using terms unique to each cultural background.

Along these lines is a book (translated from the French) entitled "Typology in Homeopathy", by Leon Vannier. This book (originally written in the 1940's) contains excellent descriptions of the "planetary types" of constitutions and temperaments (Vannier relates many of these to homeopathic remedies; however, the extensive description of the types and temperaments are of value for traditional astrologers even if the homeopathic remedy connections are excluded)

3 by dr. farr
Post script to the above:
Are there any Skyscript members who would be interested in my posting the herbal element-quality (humoral/temperament quality) table which I have developed over the past couple of years, and which I use in my therapeutic practice? I don't want to take up space on this Forum by posting something that no one is interested in, but if any members would like me to share this material let me know on this thread and I will post my "herbal temperament" table here.

6 by RegulusAstrology
Tom, glad you posted the Rolfe book. I had recommended it on another thread some time ago. The web continues to proliferate with more articles on temperament.

From a Catholic author, here is a succinct temperament summary:

http://www.fisheaters.com/fourtemperaments.html

with a free online temperament quiz:

http://www.fisheaters.com/quiz1.html

Noga Arikha's temperament quiz can be found here:

http://www.passionsandtempers.com/v1/pa ... =en&p=test

And for the die hard melancholics - of which this field seems to draw more than the average - this link provides access to a Ficino article from one of the recent famously academic priced Brill publications.

http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handl ... sequence=4
Dr. H.
World Class Research in Medieval Predictive Astrology
www.regulus-astrology.com

7 by Tom
I enjoyed Rolfe's book very much, but I"m having a problem with the test. It says I am strongly melancholic and yet don't have any planets or the ASC in earth. The medieval test makes me choleric and that is what my chart says (along with a healthy dose of phlegm). Rubiero, Dorian, and Frawley all agree with choleric/phlegmatic.

The more I think about and work with temperament, the more valuable I think it is. On another list a person made the observation that the temperament is sometimes hidden by the significator of the manners. I think that's true, and it is another avenue to pursue. It is interesting just how much information we can get from temperament alone, but coupled with manners it reveals much more than we might expect.

Tom

8 by Olivia
Tis true. I'm about an even split between sanguine/phlegmatic, but Saturn is my significator of manners. Thankfully it's at least got term and face, though it's retrograde in my chart.

By the modern method (planets and angles in signs, and using the outers) I'm fire. Choleric is even more of a mismatch than the melancholic I'm usually taken for at first meeting.

9 by Tom
Once the astrologers gets the hang of calculating the temperament, the still have a hard time with the concept, possibly because they have difficulty getting past the idea that temperament is not personality or persona, and partly because possibly they think that once we determine temperament all we have to work with is the dominant one or two humors. Neither of those things are true.

I've been fooling around on again off again with the chart of Tiger Woods. His temperament is predominantly melancholic using Frawley's method, and he has a nice balance of the remaining three. The melancholy is what gives him his famous focus and perseverance. The balance gives him his laid back charm. He practices four hours a day while anyone who has tried golf must look at him and ask why he has to practice at all?

His manners are governed by Jupiter and Mars. Mars is not surprising, but its influence is everywhere. Jupiter is angular, although not in the same sign as the 7th house that he occupies and is in trliplicity. Mars however is a bit uncomfortable in air signs. This combination gives charisma and is not in sync with the melancholy. This gives us a hint of things to come. He isn't what he seems. Part of that, doubtless is due to a carefully crafted image designed to sell products. Golf is very, very image conscious. You won't see temper tantrums on the golf course like we see on tennis courts.

A good example of out of sync temperament and its comedic value is the somewhat silly movie Happy Gilmore. Adam Sandler plays a guy who loves but is not very good at hockey, although he has the hockey players appropriate temperament. He has golf talent but his temperament never changes and cross body checking is not permitted in golf.

Jupiter is the lord of the geniture in Wood's chart as well as being one of the significator of the manners. What gets interesting is when we use Morin's triplicity rulers. Mars becomes the night ruler of the fire triplicity having influence over Woods' Jupiter, as well as his Sagittarius Moon. Furthermore Mars rules Woods' debilitated Venus.

It's been said that we can control our temperament a bit, but not change it. We can work more with our manners. This is probably a good thing in this case. Athletes, even great ones have a limited time at the top. Tiger Woods may well be a significantly better golfer than his competition, but physically he is only a tiny bit better and at that level, it makes all the difference in the world. He is past his physical prime like all 34 year-old men. If he plays again, he will rely on muscle memory, focus and his perseverance. Those are the permanent qualities of his temperament. He can control his all pervasive Mars with his temperament. He'll need to. Mars rules his Jupiter and Venus by domicile, his Moon by triplicity his ASC and MC ruler Mercury and his Sun by exaltation. But that temperament is ruled somewhat by a seriously debilitated Saturn, which is also ruled by triplicity by Mars if we use Morin's system, and even if we don't, it is in mutual reception with the Sun in the sign of Mars exaltation. It's quite a bit to control.

Here's to his temperament: may it get him through his difficulties.

Tom

10 by Steve
Tom wrote:
I've been fooling around on again off again with the chart of Tiger Woods.
Tom, what is the birth data you are using for Tiger?

Regards, Steve
With all our modern knowledge and scientific equipment, and with the the great strides made in mathematics, we astrologers have done nothing to even remotely compare with the achievements of the astrologers of antiquity. Cyril Fagan

11 by Tom
Tiger Woods
Dec 30, 1975
10:50 PM PST + 8 hrs
Long Beach, California, USA

24 Virgo 25 rises

Janus software gives this a AA rating: written record and claims it is accurate to within one minute.

Tom
!! Read first: forum policies
Recent topics
Post Reply

Return to “News, Notices, Books, Links”