Respected Steven,
You can find Sepharial's book, Kabala Of Numbers in e-format at:
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=2PnA ... q=&f=false

You can Scroll down to Chapter III , Numerlogy & Chapter IV of Various methods of Kabalism..page 42

The Sun 1 , Jupiter 3 and Mars 4 are spiritual numbers. The moon 7, Murcury 5 and Venus 6 are mental numbers ;while Saturm 8 ,Sun 4 and Moon 2 are physical numbers

Further , he commented on Sun /Saturn Opposition, Conjunction on the basis of Numbers got by adding year/name etc..

Hope Sepharial methods can be construed ancient by today's standards.

Steven wrote:

People have offered up valuable and pertinant answers. You have ignored it and ridiculed it
If you don't want to pay attention that's great

Who I am to ignore the creditable Astrological Insights!
World is reading it and probaly have formed its own opinion.
Thats the purpose of the whole discussion .
I know,I have not ridiculed anyone , or any of the insights.
And I hope , you have made above comments only to aghast me...for you are very well aware Astrological quest is a continous process , never ending learning , assimilating new ideas...there is hardly a room for fixed thoughts or single track mind!
I am quite thankful of Gjiada contribution and the pain s/he took in compiling her multiple of 7's sabbatical/climatereic nature...but though I do wish , in larger interests , s/he would come-up up with modertn statistical analysis to back up her belief!!
What are the odds of some thing climateric happening after 21 yrs or within a year of completing 21 yrs?
what chance would suggest?
were odd increases for someone with birth number 8?

As for me , in my college days , I have enjoyed a bit of gambling in small fete with the game Lucky 7! ( where 2 dies are thrown..)
No 7 is considered be lucky/fortunate, hopefully , all around the world..I am unable to associate it in any way with Saturn 's principle

I am quite thankful of Gjiada contribution and the pain s/he took in compiling her multiple of 7's sabbatical/climatereic nature...but though I do wish , in larger interests , s/he would come-up up with modertn statistical analysis to back up her belief!! What are the odds of some thing climateric happening after 21 yrs or within a year of completing 21 yrs?

I don't understand this modern religion of statistical analysis and why anyone would want to limit his or her astrological pursuits with it. Actuarial astrology is a sad and dreary activity. Statistics show us the club membership of the common crowd ? the crowd of people, things or events we want to be able to comfortably grasp and place. The more interestingly significant and powerful people, things and events are found in the exceptions, the 'stand-alones', rather than in measured and labeled groups. But those are maybe found on the other side of the statistics ? the side we should be looking at. In other words, look out and away from the group if you want to find the important action.

Kirk wrote:

The more interestingly significant and powerful people, things and events are found in the exceptions, the 'stand-alones', rather than in measured and labeled groups. But those are maybe found on the other side of the statistics ? the side we should be looking at. In other words, look out and away from the group if you want to find the important action.

I agree with you in toto, Kirk , but there are limitations we each have..who wouldn't like to be a Child Prodigy..but we often know whether we are mediocre or not...we can do well to investigate or explore our belief system , discriminate superstitions from universal , general ,specific truths / statistical inferences ..but in the end be able to call spade a spade!

I am grateful for your insight and wise words!
Its worth following...

I can imagine some reasons for the number 8 being assigned to Saturn. Some numerological explanations of the number 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc or 2 to the power X, is that it are numbers of manifestation, growing more concrete as the number x increases. For example, after conception the egg cell doubles each time untill it shapes into a human being. I believe I read these explanations in this book some 9 years ago http://www.amazon.com/Working-Astrology ... 1873948034 )

Although cyclically one might tend to attribute the number 7 to Saturn, note that due to the eccentricity of Saturn's orbit the time for Saturn to square transit a natal position can vary between 6 years 8 months and 8 years 1 month. This is from heliocentric view, geocentric view can add some months to or subtract some months from these periods.

Averagely 1/4th of the Saturn period is 29,46/4 = ca. 7y 4m so I wouldn't go for the strict 7 either (provided Saturn is the cause of this 7 year itch).
After 28 years the number deviates 1,5 years from the average Saturn return. It's like using 360 days as a year, this will deviate one whole year after some 70 periods of 360 years.

I think there's nothing wrong with statistics.

Statistics show us the club membership of the common crowd ? the crowd of people, things or events we want to be able to comfortably grasp and place. The more interestingly significant and powerful people, things and events are found in the exceptions, the 'stand-alones', rather than in measured and labeled groups.

Statistics are rather used to find significant characteristics to distinguish the special from the common by using a certain group compared to an average group.

E.g. if by some astrological rule one is said to have violent intentions with Mars in a certain sign, then this should show in say violent criminals in prison and be absent or average in 'normal'/common groups.

Finally it leads to the conundrum if astrological rules can't be tested, then they couldn't be made either. Until now statistical research (like those of Gauquelin) has given results which are mostly negative for astrology. That doesn't need to be a problem. I think it only means that we should alter our view towards astrology.

I've been googling for statistics for divorces and found several "median durations of marriages", varying from a few years to 12 years. However communication in a marriage may have ended long before divorce, wich is just a formal end by law on paper.

Respected Eddy,
You have given a very well balanced view and analysis of Saturn's cycle of squaring its own position.
Your contribution is very much appreciated, and always well- sought after!

. Use of Statistics tools are a meaningful tool to arrive at a certain inference.., but as Respected Kirk has observed:

Actuarial astrology is a sad and dreary activity

So is Statistical research...difficult and dreary and painstaking.

At astrodienst forum , I have tried to discuss its methodology & mathematical formulation , (and received good insights from Waybread though...)

http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1257599017

Kind regards.

Thanks Arihant,

I was a bit distracted by the statistics issue and I forgot something about that symbolism. It's quite a long time I've read about numerology but if I remember well the number 4 was related to earth matters, like the 4 colures, the 4 seasons (at least for the temperate zones on Earth) and the 4 main compass directions. 8 was said to be the more concretization of it. 8 is also 2*2*2 which is the cube of 2. A cube shape is also related with concrete earthy matters. Saturn is also seen as a concrete planet, agriculture, death, bones etc.

So there's both to say for the 7 and the 8. Perhaps a good compromise would be 7.5 which *4 is 30 globally Saturn's cycle .

About statistics I haven't made up my mind yet. I think they have a lot of value, but the outcome depends much on what you choose. One of Gauquelin's researches was about transits and death. The results were negative. However for me it wouldn't be a reason to dismiss transits as a whole but simply that transits don't necessarily can be related to death.

John Addey once wrote something like that astrological researches were aimed at checking the 'frills' (like sun-sign delineations) but that it doesn't mean that the whole of astrology is useless.

...just an observation...an aside if you please.

"There are three kinds of lies. Lies, damnable lies and statistics!" Mark
Twain.

i have saturn return, saturn is applying, i am feeling the heaviness of the responsibility. i have a lot of work as if they will never end...
they do not end, i am constantly working studying.
this is my saturn return, lots of work which i have to do..