Moon is at 2 degrees from a perfect trine with Jupiter in 7... Moon is in the 11th, i.e. the 5th of the 7th, and it rules the 4th, i.e. the 10th of the 7th... Could it be that the Moon doesn't represent me

By the way, I am using Regiomontanus for the houses. I am not sure what you are using. I mention this because of something that Deb said about your significator Mars being in the 8th house. I have Mars in the 7th house using Regiomontanus. I notice that if you use either Placidus or Porphyry that Mars is indeed in the 8th house. Or maybe she just meant to say that his significator Venus is in the 8th house, as it is no matter which of the three house systems you use. Either way, the interpretation doesn?t change much.

Also, I picked the town of Turnhout, Belgium for the place of the chart. That gave me the 13-degree Aries rising that you mentioned.

While what you said about how to interpret the Moon and Jupiter could be the case, I?d first look at a simple explanation rather than a complicated one. And in some sense, for you it doesn?t matter how the relationship came to end, it just matters that it did end. The key here may first be to decide what Jupiter represents. I wasn?t quite convinced about Deb?s suggestion that Jupiter represented overseas travel through work. I am open to the suggestion, just not convinced of it. You?d be in a better position to understand this. I was more drawn to something else in the chart that sort of relates to all of what you?ve described.

First lets look at a couple of things that you said. You said that you?re confused about the situation ? his disappearance and not calling ? and you also said that he claimed to have a very dark side. Look at the Moon, your co-significator. It?s close to being conjunct Neptune. Both are in the 12th house, along with Uranus. The 12th house is ruled by a very debilitated Saturn. That is quite a potent line up there. All of this points in one direction, and that is that the situation is impossible for you to fathom, that it involves confusion (Neptune), a break-up (Uranus) and a hard limit (Saturn). The 12th house shows things that you can?t see or understand or do anything about. Your Moon being on its cusp and the whole house being ruled by Saturn shows that this unknown and unknowable thing is an obstacle relating to you and this guy.

When I see the 12th house emphasized so much in a chart, I take that to mean don?t waste your time trying to understand it. Just except that it?s a mystery and that you can?t do anything about it and act accordingly. The ruler of the 12th house Saturn is in the 5th house, so maybe that does point to another woman. I?ve noticed that horary almost never clearly shows the presence of another woman or man. The classic rule is to see if your guy?s significator is either ruled by or exalts another planet and is also in an close aspect with that same planet too. That?s not the case here. The 12th house ruler being positioned in the 5th house may just as easily show that he has some deep and hidden personal problems relating to sexuality that limits his ability to have a relationship with you. You said that he is not as mature as he might be for someone of his age. But all of this is a side issue. With your two significators parting, his in the 8th house, and your co-significator in the 12th house, whether he has someone else is not really relevant.

One other thought is that the Moon?s last contact with the main significators is a square with Mars. Besides being a square, which is hard enough, the Moon would be in its fall in Scorpio so that make this an especially difficult contact. (I left out the Moon?s contact with the Sun because the Sun is not emphasized in the chart.)

There is a positive side which is that with your significator in it?s own sign and triplicity, it shows that you?re in really strong position here, which is really obvious from your overall tone of voice. Good luck and my thoughts are with you.

thank you for the teaching session.

funny how uranus in pisces in 12 summarizes it all... the unsolvable mystery of the confusing break up...

Hi Mark,

I just checked this out and you?re right ? I did have the chart set to Placidus. That was a mistake, I?d have changed it to Regiomontanus if I?d realised.

Earlier you wrote:

Another question is about how to figure out the role of Jupiter here. Why use the radical 9th to show travel and the turned 10th house? Wouldn?t you use either all radical or all turned houses? I am not disagreeing here; I just would like to understand the process more.

I place the emphasis upon radical houses wherever possible and generally only turn the houses where I need to add an extra layer of detail or want to explore something specific to an individual other than the querent. Because Jupiter is angular and receiving the Moon, the houses it rules in the radical figure will help to define its representation of something important that is affecting the question in a general sense. This brings issues of travel into the framework of the question. If I?m looking at the influence of the partner?s job, the Moon becomes the significator of his turned 10th ? it?s in a partile sextile to Mercury, his turned 9th house ruler and applying to the trine of Jupiter which is also carrying a connection with travel. Jupiter certainly has a much deeper influence than that, I was just illustrating that where the main significators are separating we can?t rely on the Moon?s trine to Jupiter to show promise of a reunion because it can be describing other factors relevant to the break up. I wouldn?t want to ignore Jupiter?s rulership over the turned 3rd which contains the Sun-Pluto conjunction either. This all helps to describe an ?over-intelligent man who has a demanding job?. With regards to the underlying reason for the break up, I don?t think it goes much further than that and Jupiter?s presence on the 7th house cusp helps relate it to us. Socially he moves in large circles and this was probably the distracting influence that prevented the relationship maturing.

I see. But I guess it doesn't look as clear-cut to me. I could also see Jupiter ruling the radical 8th house, which is also the house that contains his significator and Mercury. Mercury also rules the radical 3rd house - communication - which could also describes someone who never returned her phone calls. But I'm not convinced of this either.

I guess my point is when we have so many choices. i.e., does Jupiter rule the radical 8th or 9th, or turned 2nd or 3rd, etc., how do we decide which one to use?

I do see why Jupiter is so important here though, and whatever it is should relate to the breakup.

Do you also see the 12th house influence that I saw? Or is that not as important as I thought I was?

The point?s a bit redundant now because it was based on a mistake. Using Placidus the 9th was the only house that Jupiter ruled, and so as I explained in my original post, that was why I thought 9th house issues were brought to prominence. It?s standard Lilly-style technique to determine a planet?s influence, in part at least, from the house(s) it rules. It will never be more than two houses in the radical figure so if a planet is screaming importance it?s worth considering those houses and which of them fall into context with the question and the situation known. Using Placidus the Moon wasn?t in or conjunct the 12th house cusp - hence that didn?t get a mention.

So how would you use Jupiter here and more importantly why? Other than the context and specifics of the question, is there anything else to go on as far as a method?

It seems that if we rely on what the querent tells us or knows, then we might miss something that even they don't know about or won't tell.

Might the presence of absence of aspects help to decide which house to assign Jupiter to? Like in this chart the Moon has just separated from Mercury in the 8th house. Does that sort of point to the 8th house over the 9th house? I don?t know. I?m just guessing here. I?m trying to find some sort of technique other than just trial and error.

Deb is certainly right in saying that his traveling and job play an important role -- but I believe that Mark has a point too in mentioning that Jupiter also rules the 8th and the 12th...

I knew there were secrets and issues with sex. I don't know what exactly his issues were. If I knew it I would not not try so hard to understand the horary. All I know is that he mentioned his dark side often, that he criticized others who were less intelligent and less educated than him, that he had a violent edge, that he was not capable of any empathy (he said so himself)... He often joked that he was a socio-path... (now I make him sound like a monster. But he cared for his family, believed in traditional values, and was very interesting and stimulating and educative company and I miss him for that.)