Looking to the future is what astrologers do you know . . .

Maybe that's why they aren't respected.

I think it's obvious that I wasn't criticizing all prediction. There's no reason why astrology can't be used with a focus on now with glances at possible futures. It's a matter of focusing on current symbolic conditions, or astrological metaphors and letting life develop from that. When we plant bean seeds we don't uselessly sit around predicting the crop. We go about tending the plants and harvesting. Astrologers too often sit on their butts and predict the crop. Useless ? especially when they're sucked into grand and frightening worldwide predictions. And it's always scary stuff that they predict. Few astrologers spend their time predicting good or hopeful things, and scary stuff was exactly the intent behind this thread. More crap to get each other worked up with. More head-in-the-clouds garbage to occupy and waste a life with.

"Nichts ist Gewiss." (Nothing is certain), true?

All in all - I just do not really know. I just can't imagine a conflict between Russia and mid-Europe. Germany and Russsia are getting along well - for the time being (despite the horrors of World War II).

Nobody really knows, except God, that's how I look at this issue.
Germany and Russia get along well, but, as you've said,for the time being. Who knows what might happen in let's say, ten years from now? Or even five? Not many people thought in 1933. that Hitler would start WW II but he did it, only six years later what bothers me the most is the world-wide, massive armament that has been going on. I don't think they're planning to play chess with all those weapons. Eventually, the tensions, already present to a very high degree, will mount to unbearable pressure and all hell will break loose. So, in my opinion, it's not the question of whether, but only when it will happen - unfortunately.

Greetings,
Goran

Eventually, the tensions, already present to a very high degree, will mount to unbearable pressure and all hell will break loose. So, in my opinion, it's not the question of whether, but only when it will happen - unfortunately.

So astrology doesn't even matter. We all just want to sit around, predict humanity's future, and sigh. Unfortunately. It's better for the Skyscript plug to be pulled than to serve as a conduit this sort of thing.

Kirk wrote:

Eventually, the tensions, already present to a very high degree, will mount to unbearable pressure and all hell will break loose. So, in my opinion, it's not the question of whether, but only when it will happen - unfortunately.

So astrology doesn't even matter. We all just want to sit around, predict humanity's future, and sigh. Unfortunately. It's better for the Skyscript plug to be pulled than to serve as a conduit this sort of thing.

You got the point. In comparison to God, astrology really doesn't matter a bit.

In comparison to God, astrology really doesn't matter a bit.

Rather than making comparisons to God / The Creator / The Force ? whatever ? time is better spent working with that power to (re)create the world anew each day. It's quite smart, useful and encouraging when you think about it. Much more practical, helpful and life-affirming than useless 'visions' of what may come. Granted, scary stories seem to draw a larger audience. For some very strange reason it's easier to be negative and fearful in the astrological world. Hopefulness and positivity are often seen as some sort of New Age fluff.

Kirk wrote:

In comparison to God, astrology really doesn't matter a bit.

Rather than making comparisons to God / The Creator / The Force ? whatever ? time is better spent working with that power to (re)create the world anew each day. It's quite smart, useful and encouraging when you think about it. Much more practical, helpful and life-affirming than useless 'visions' of what may come. Granted, scary stories seem to draw a larger audience. For some very strange reason it's easier to be negative and fearful in the astrological world. Hopefulness and positivity are often seen as some sort of New Age fluff.

Correct, time is better spent in trying to improve life conditions on Earth; but how many are overtly doing just the opposite of that? Negativity and fearfulness are widely spread these days, not only/exclusively in astrological world and not without manifold, good reasons.
Maybe they are seen as a New Age fluff because "positivity and hopefulness" are too often used to mislead people, to give them false hope, to cover their eyes and ears when they are being lied to?
And dark prophecies still tend to be fulfilled with high accuracy because of the evil inherent in human beings, not necessarily because of the prophet's outstanding ability to foresee the future.

Contained within every predictive astrological chart are indications of what influences will enhance, and what influences will alter, the predicted situation. We who use astro-therapeutics see and do this in every case: the chart shows the current and developing state and at the same time shows the modifying/antidoting remedies (or other applications) which can positively impact that imbalanced state. So too in all astrological interrogations of the cosmos: the developing macrocosmic trends are demonstrated in the chart-their likely outcome IF NOT MODIFIED is determined and deduced: but contained within this same chart are also indications of what can change, modify or totally cancel out those cosmic trends.

The ability to understand the astrological chart so as to determine what can be done to modify or eliminate malefic trends-or at least to modify or eliminate the effects or ramifications of those trends-and then to take action in that direction (or at least to make recommendations as to what effective actions can be taken in that direction) is the fundamental difference between the fatalistic fortune teller and the astrological seer.

Goran wrote:

However, these wars didn't erupt into world war and that is decisive point, if we bear in mind your original hypothesis -

What hypothesis? If there is a hypothesis in my post please quote it because I don't know anything about it I wrote about an intriguing and interesting aspect in the skies during the month for which there is a grim prediction, and I mentioned another aspect which is very often synchronous with an onset of wars, but I made no hypothesis. Please don't overturn my words. The causes for a war are manifold, as are our astrological methods and ways of investigation. As for myself and my mundane techniques, I put the power of solar and lunar eclipses above that of transits, but that was not the subject matter of this thread.

"World War III"..
What actually IS a "world war"? The question is not as stupid as it might be at first sight.
Until 1917 the term "world war" could not be found in any dictionary. When the Second World War started people thought it was going to be "only" a European war. It was not until Dec. '41 that it turened out to be a world war.
It is common knowledge that it started on Sept. 1st 1939. However, one might also say that it started in 1936 - when the Spanish Civil War started which involved "unofficialy" several European states. Or 1937 with Japan attacking China. - In my view actually 1937 marks the beginning of World War II - this certainly does NOT imply that German guilt and responsibility would have to be diminished in any way (!).
In other words: a world war may begin without people being aware of what is actually happening. In a way one may say that a world war has already begun - maybe in ten or twenty years' time people will say that September 11th, 2001 marked the start of World War III.
At present Obama is considering to intensify US military activities....

Regards, LL

By the way: what about looking at some charts that deal with the following decade? I suggest the Great Conjunctions (SAT/JUP), including the "maxissima" of Dec. 18, 1603 (first entry of Great Trigon into the fire element).

Please don't overturn my words. The causes for a war are manifold, as are our astrological methods and ways of investigation. As for myself and my mundane techniques, I put the power of solar and lunar eclipses above that of transits, but that was not the subject matter of this thread.

But, of course, there's this pesky statement from your opening post:

So, Pluto is undoubtedly the major force behind wars.

There's no denying it.

On the verge of a New Year, I sincerely hope 2010 will be a year when the world learns to find more peaceful and profitable solutions to its problems. As a moderator to this forum though, it?s not hard to see how it?s the disagreements that gather attention and claim our focus. The thread has come close to the edge a few times so please be aware that inflammatory remarks are likely to be edited or removed.

It is sometimes hard to know where the line exists on this forum, but discussion relating to mundane astrology have been welcomed here, so I think the initial post was well placed and the topic ought to be able to be discussed with respect for differing opinions.

Kirk, I think you have a good point, but your declaration of having a rapidly growing contempt for astrologers is worrying, and maybe you agree that remark needs toning down a little? One principle I have maintained since starting this forum is that it is to be a place where those genuinely interested in astrology can engage in open discussion without fear of internal hostility. There have certainly been times when I have found myself ?wound up? by astrological discussion that I have found offensive, but I think that?s a signal to move the mind to something more productive for a while. If you want to continue your argument then really needs to be made more respectfully to the other participants of this discussion, who I am sure care about quality astrology too.

I?m now hoping to make today a good one, as you suggest, and will make that my motto for 2010.

Deb

Deb, thanks:)
Kirk: yes, Pluto undoubtedly is a major force behind wars (IMO of course), therefore I scrutinize its position in mundane maps (solar eclipses especially) carefully, whenever I look for possible "causes" for a war. I hope this satisfies your curiosity:)
Happy new year to everybody