Hello, wintersa

I don't think this chart shows that querent will be readmitted to the university for several reasons.
First of all, both the significators (Venus and Moon) are ill-disposed, Venus being combust and Moon in its detriment,heading into combustion at the very end of its monthly cycle when it looses all the power needed to perform anything. Its proximity to the nodes is also negative, since this is the place where it is eclipsed. A very debilitated Moon in any horary chart is the clearest signal that nothing good will come of the matter.
As you've pointed out, the placement of the significators in the 9th clearly shows where the querent's thoughts and wishes reside; however, this is not enough to conclude that her wishes will also come true.
The ruler of the 9th, Saturn, is also ill disposed by being retrograde and cadent.
Although Venus applies to Saturn by trine and will be received by the lord of the quesited, Saturn is unable to retain her light because of the retrogradation and cadency; Venus is applying(commiting her disposition) while combust, and this is also bad, since the combust planet's light is not received by the applied to planet. Here both Saturn and Venus are unable to bring the matter to perfection, although there's mutual desire and will(symbolized by strong mutual reception).
Saturn returns the light to Venus and this will cause problems/loss to the querent because Venus is cadent.
And finally, here we have an angular Mars in the 4th(end of the matter inquired about) which is peregrine and retrograde - a very nasty,oriental, out of sect Mars, so it has enough power to act. Jupiter is placed in the 10th, but its strength and virtue are already in the next sign, Pisces, because it is located in the 30th degree of Aquarius; therefore he cannot mitigate the influence of Mars.
I do hope to be proven wrong in my final conclusion.

Greetings,
Goran

handn, thank you for taking a look at the chart, and for the helpful links, including the Swiss Ephemeris. It's always nice to be able to do these things by hand...

Paul, your comments seemed very apt:

Saturn is at station going retrograde which is one of the most 'vulnerable' positions to have a planet. Luckily that planet represents teh University rather than you. Maybe there's some dispute internally in the University about its future.

and

you can say that it WILL happen, but only after a change of circumstance

The head of the Querent's (former? future?) academic department has just retired, and a new department head, completely unknown to her, has been appointed. And so it is, indeed, a transition time for the part of the university she is concerned with.

I'm not sure about any tests or exams, but I do think written statements will be required as part of the process.

EDIT:

Hello, Goran! I didn't see your post before I made mine, I'm sorry. Thank you for your impressive analysis. (by the way, does it matter that Saturn was stationary and not yet retrograde?) I'm really appreciating this input -- I'm midway through a multiyear astrological course, but just now starting on horary; I'm definitely in over my head (but enjoying it)

Hi Wintersa

I don't have time to look closely at the chart but with regard to the definition of Venus being cazimi or not - later Arabic and medieval authors define cazimi as within 16 or 17 minutes of the Sun, but many of the earlier sources define it as within 1 whole degree of the centre of the Sun. The reason is that anciently the unit of a whole degree was believed to be filled by the creative influence of the meeting, whereas later astronomers attempted to define this ?meeting? more exactly, as occurring within the limit of the Sun?s disc (reckoned as being just over half a degree in size). Obviously, Venus doesn?t move from being ?brilliantly fortified? in one minute of arc, and then thoroughly dejected in the next, but during the time when Venus is exactly aligned with the Sun, the ?magical union? takes place, during which the Sun recharges Venus, like a moment of impregnation.

The Sun ?strengthens? Venus by its conjunction because it marks the beginning of a new synodic cycle. But throughout this whole phase (including cazimi) Venus is weak and not able to exert much influence. Hence traditional authors spoke about combust planets not being able to make use of the influences that are passed to them by aspect.

One of the ?considerations? recorded by Lilly is this:

If the lord of the ascendant be combust, neither question propounded will take nor the querent be regulated (CA., p.122)

This derives from older texts which explain that a combust planet ?cannot grasp hold of what is given to them? (Abumasar: Greater Introduction, Bk VII) One specific consideration is that if both planets involved in the aspect are combust or retrograde then ?the request has no beginning or end? ? I take this to mean that the matter isn?t going anywhere.

Since your horary could only show an out-of-sign application between a combust Venus to a retrograde Saturn, I can?t see how this could be read as a positive answer to the querent's question, and will be very interested to hear how the situation pans out.

Deb

wintersa wrote:Oh, and what to make of the earlyish ascendant? (3'39)? Is it too early to say, or does it reflect that the process is just beginning?

Well, I don't think it is that early,but an indication of an early phase of the situation- perhaps.

Now, it is easier when we see the chart so, I'll go through what I have already mentioned in my previous post again.

Venus is moving away from the Sun. That we know for sure now.
They're still at the same degree and this single only blue line stands for the aspects of both planets with saturn (you will notice that it is abit thicker than usually).
Both planets are faster than Saturn and so, they're applying to it. venus is faster than the Sun and has already left it so- it indeed is the next planet to reach Saturn. It's an out of sign application, 'tho as Venus has to cross the sign boundary first - it will for te aspect with the ruler of the Quesited from Aquarius.
It's a trine and I'd allow a wider orb though 10?is a bit stretched so, some would not see it as a placement within the orb of the application. Besides, it is still strongly influenced by the Sun and it has to cross the sign boundary first and so- at this point, it does not look like an instant resolution.

Mercury is the natural ruler of scholars/student, Saturn rules the 9th and with both planets being retrograde I'd say that we have a clear sign of an intention to go BACK to the university.

The Moon is badly placed, though. It is detrimental and about to conjunct the Sun. New Moon charts are not really promising and here we have all three main significators cadent and Moon and Venus severly burnt. Cadent placement reduces their potential to act in the desired way though her intentions and ambitions are obviously high and her determination undeniable considering the houses that these planets occupy. But, with an early ascendant, the Venus close to the Sun but slowly moving away from it and applying to the ruler of the Quesited and with the natural ruler of high education being angular and well placed but yet to enter the sign of its rulership- i'd say this situation will include some additional steps.
I didn't really spend much time analysing the chart, i'm just partially examining it but I'd say that this chart will have a lot to say and that she should stick to it regardless of what the outcome in her first atempt or the nearest future might be.

Also, if the planet is combust, then there must be something that is causing this "damage"- you have already mentioned the authorities and that fits the nature of the Sun but you might also want to examine the potentially acceptable symbolics of the 4th house that it rules (home, homeland, parents etc.)
Saturn is retrograde and on the cusp of the 6th (daily job, poverty, health etc.)

[quote="wintersa"]I'm not sure about any tests or exams, but I do think written statements will be required as part of the process.[/quote]

Wintersa

The question was will the querent be REadmitted to university. One assumes that all things being equal the situation should continue as it is. Am I understanding this wrong? With that in mind why are there written statements?

Thank you for the great replies! It's very interesting to hear more about the ways the planets become strengthened and weakened throughout their cycles to the Sun -- it's enriching my understandings of planetary dignity and debility, thank you all.

Paul, just to clear up the confusion -- you did not misunderstand, the querent is applying to be readmitted to her former graduate school program. I said that I didn't know if there would be tests or exams involved (since it is a graduate program), but that I am pretty sure there will be some kind of written statements required (for the application for readmission). Sorry for the way I phrased it; it was about as clear as mud.

Aglaya, you said:

Also, if the planet is combust, then there must be something that is causing this "damage"- you have already mentioned the authorities and that fits the nature of the Sun but you might also want to examine the potentially acceptable symbolics of the 4th house that it rules (home, homeland, parents etc.)

I'm afraid this symbolism is very appropriate. The Querent left the university previously because of emotional and financial difficulties caused by her family, which she handled badly. She tried to continue as though nothing was wrong, until circumstances broke down completely and left quite a mess. As a result, attempting to resume her studies is surrounded by fear and embarrassment for her and she is trying to retain some dignity -- I think this is well signified by Venus in Capricorn, showing the querent as seriousminded, a bit aloof, stiff or undemonstrative, or unemotional. If Venus is the querent and Moon the question, it's interesting that Venus is in better shape than the Moon -- she's been through combustion, but is coming out the other side, while the Moon is in its detriment and moving to combustion. So the querent has moved forward, but the matter isn't behind her yet -- in fact, it will be brought to painful prominence if it is to be resolved?

Does the combustion of Venus need to signify a very recent event? What kind of time scales are relevant?

Thank you again for all your help on the chart, it is such a pleasure to learn from you all.

Wow, this thread is growing so swiftly, it wasn't until now that i realised that my last post was on the 2nd page and that Deb and other have also replied! You really did get plenty of useful informations here.

Does the combustion of Venus need to signify a very recent event? What kind of time scales are relevant?

Well, I can only share my main impression with you here and personally, I don't think I would go as far as to search fr a possible specific event or situation, especially after reading your last post. In most of the charts with L1 (lord of the ascendant) combust that I've seen so far, the combustion was descriptive of the general cause of fear,the reason, the overwhelming influence etc. Like I have already mentioned, checking the symbolics of the house that the Sun rules in such situations is very helpful as it usually pinpoints the direction from which the influence is coming. So, if the family or her family life is indeed the general cause of her lack of self-esteem or courage or anything else that she might be in need of in order to accomplish her goal, then I'd simply use this as a general indication- the indication of the kind of influence and the origin of the influence that she has been exposed to. It is an important information in every astrological reading, IMHO, as people often don't really realise where the blockage is coming from and tend to blame it on curses - being aware that you're influenced by something and that you need to re-gain the strength and courage is good and, for what is worth, leaves us more potential to change the circumstances by changing ourselves and our attitudes- any way it takes. if it is counseling, than so be it.
Of course, if you think that you should try to "locate" a specific event, than use the separating aspects and see where they will take you- past events that coincide with them will help you to determine the right time units, simply compare the number of the degrees in separating aspects with the possible units of time that have passed since the events (weeks, months etc.).

If Venus is the querent and Moon the question, it's interesting that Venus is in better shape than the Moon -- she's been through combustion, but is coming out the other side, while the Moon is in its detriment and moving to combustion. So the querent has moved forward, but the matter isn't behind her yet -- in fact, it will be brought to painful prominence if it is to be resolved?

Well, it is important that venus is moving away from the Sun, that's true but this combination can also be taken as very descriptive - the Moon is the significator of the Question in general while Venus is the significator of the Querent. Venus is describing her current shape and state of mind while the shape of the moon is "responsible" for the general tone of the situation. The stwo planets together (out of sign application of the main significators, cadency, combustion, new moon etc.) indeed do not look very promising BUT- maybe the first attempt will not be successful. maybe she is not ready. But it won't last forever.
AS for the last part- it is a tricky situation as, once we decide to put all or courage together and to move on, we usually do not want to see something very important and that is- that we need to deal with the past or, in better words, that we need to help the wounds to heal. Most of the times, after very stressful situations or long bad periods we need much more than just an impulse to move on and a wave of fresh energy- we would like to forget about the past but we're trapped in the same circle unless we deal with it. So, I'd say that such questions require a very specific approach as the Querent's will to change the things for the better should not be suffocated - though she has maybe visualised this goal in particular as a symbolic beginning of a new life, that life is still waiting for her even if she does not succeed in her first attempt to go back to the university.
Finally, maybe she is yet to break some bonds with the surrounding that is currently on her way, maybe she needs to let the distance become bigger or free herself from the influeences on a personal, emotional level. The Sun is still close and she is probably still under the infleunce. But, we cannot simply sit and wait for better days to come- if the chart is suggesting that we should re-gain the strength, gain new courage, work on ourself, break some bonds etc. then it all starts from us- no chart will help the athlete to win the race unless he is well prepared for it.

wintersa wrote:If Venus is the querent and Moon the question, it's interesting that Venus is in better shape than the Moon -- she's been through combustion, but is coming out the other side, while the Moon is in its detriment and moving to combustion. So the querent has moved forward, but the matter isn't behind her yet -- in fact, it will be brought to painful prominence if it is to be resolved?

Only a marginal note: There is no significator for the question in itself in a horary. The querent is signified by the lord of the anscendant, the quesited or "the matter propounded" is signified by the Lord of the adequate house or the house "it does properly belong to".

"In every question we doe give the Moon as a Cosignificator with the querent or Lord of the Ascendant (...). William Lilly, CA, p. 123, 124

The question in priciple is not symbolized by a significator but by certain circumstances or actions only, by perfecting aspects or the significators for instance.

Satisfyingly, an update: the querent has been offered readmission to the university. It took longer than expected (over a month, I think), but the newly-appointed head of her academic department presented it to the rest of the faculty. She was required to submit a formal application, which has been approved. Querent is also required to take a particular course as condition of admission. Interestingly, registration has not happened yet because her student visa is expired (she is living in a foreign country) - this is being addressed now, but I wonder whether this is visible in the chart, or represents some of the difficulties other commenters have foreseen.

Dept. head's influence = is there a translation of light?

The signification of the university as Saturn in Libra, stationary, and in its own terms certainly seems apt - it seems to have brought (or be bringing about) the thing signified, but very slowly and with lots of administrative delay.

Because she hasn't yet registered for courses, I can't help but wonder if something is going to go wrong at the last minute...

Along with what is already (well) said, about: combustion, early asc, detrimented moon and under sun beams, before Saturn trines Venus, it will square Mercury. Admition as a final concluded situation will not happen (or shouldn't if the querent manages).

My guess is your finances will be a hindrance to the cause and perhaps a combination of 5th house relation to said finances?


edit: clarified spelling

I just wanted to let everyone know the outcome. The querent finally got her visa and returned to the university in August - five or six months or so after getting readmitted, and about seven months after the question was asked. Can this be seen in the chart?

I remember someone, I think it was Handn, saying that the aspect would happen but only after the querent and quesited had moved into the next sign, which seemed to indicate a lot of delay. Also, the university was represented by Saturn stationing, which would seem to suggest a slow process. Taken literally, the university was barely moving -- stationary -- but heading to retrograde motion, which I think is descriptive of them acting extremely slowly but returning somehow to the past (readmission).

So she was readmitted (and given a new visa) -- but not in time for the first semester, only midway through the year! The original question was, "Will I be readmitted to the university?" -- so I'm not sure how the time factors in to it. I'm very interested to see what you all think.

Hello wintersa

Thanks for the updates, and congratulations to the querent on her successes with her goals, she sounds very determined...and patient!

I'm going to re-look at the chart and cast my mind back to this one.

Is the querent settled and coping well with the return, do you know? It sounds like a stressful, drawn-out process, hard to endure....very Capricorn!

Regards

H.