Hi Mark

Is this of interest - the research that Kim Farnell did on this subject?
Astrology, Sex and Great Lovers - http://www.skyscript.co.uk/love.html
I seem to remember Kim saying that she found no reliable indicators of homosexuality and considered it, like gender itself, to be something that the horoscope is neutral about. However, although it is hard for me to give concrete examples, I have personally noticed signatures of unconventiality in the natal charts I have worked with of older people - but maybe because they had a harder time being socially open than the modern genration (?)

Hi Osthanes,

Regarding your comment:

the Fruit of Ptolemy, which seems to have been forged by a certain A?mad ibn ad-D?ya in the 10th century

Apparently, Ahmed ibn Yusuf al-Misri (born Baghdad 835) wrote a commentary of this work in the 9th century, which still exists. There are various reports of this, see for example - http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~his ... Ahmed.html

Deb wrote:

Is this of interest - the research that Kim Farnell did on this subject? Astrology, Sex and Great Lovers - http://www.skyscript.co.uk/love.html

Thanks very much Deb. I must revisit Kim Farnell's article here. In addition Kim wrote a full E-book on the 'The Astrology of Sex' in 2004. It can be purchased online from the link below:

http://astrosex.conjunctionpoint.com/index.shtml

I have a recording of a talk by Kim on this topic and have been meaning to purchase the E-book for a while. Kim's research seems a significant advance on Vivian Robson's old book on the subject.

I seem to remember Kim saying that she found no reliable indicators of homosexuality and considered it, like gender itself, to be something that the horoscope is neutral about.

Its certainly not something I have seem much evidence of either. For example I have seen women's charts with a very heavy emphasis on masculine planets but they were definitely not Lesbian.

However, although it is hard for me to give concrete examples, I have personally noticed signatures of unconventiality in the natal charts I have worked with of older people - but maybe because they had a harder time being socially open than the modern genration (?)

Thats a fair point. Considering male homosexuality was illegal in the UK until the 1960's that would make such a lifestyle necessarily 'underground' and in that respect deviant from the norm. Its a total contrast to the attitudes of young people under 30 today who tend to see Gay or Lesbian sexuality as completely socially acceptable.

Hi Deb,

first, sorry for being off-topic.

Deb wrote:Apparently, Ahmed ibn Yusuf al-Misri (born Baghdad 835) wrote a commentary of this work in the 9th century, which still exists.

This is the same guy but this birth year appears to be an Internet meme (look at this link for a more reasoned dating). Richard Lemay hypothesized that he himself authored the text (I could not find the original publication on line, but for a description see this link) which is accepted by Pingree (link). The proof is that, despite the pretension, the aphorisms are shortened and easy-to-remember distillations from the "commentary" which is heavily dependant on the conjunctional theory of Ab? Ma?shar, and therefore must be more recent. It perfectly fits in the theory that A?mad ibn ad-D?ya himself made this text.

Perhaps differing from our traditionalists in this matter, I personally interpret ALL "masculine" and "feminine" indications (eg of signs, planets, etc) in Yang and Yin terms (that is, in the extended meanings of those cosmological terms), and never as meaning "man" (male sex) or "woman" (female sex).

Deb wrote:
Is this of interest - the research that Kim Farnell did on this subject?
Astrology, Sex and Great Lovers - http://www.skyscript.co.uk/love.html
I seem to remember Kim saying that she found no reliable indicators of homosexuality and considered it, like gender itself, to be something that the horoscope is neutral about. However, although it is hard for me to give concrete examples,

Last year in my blog I gave a look to GIACOMO (not Giovanni ) Casanova

http://heavenastrolabe.net/about-star-crossed-love/

this is evidently a case of excess. Too many women (if there is this idea for a man, I don't know)

Sun, Venus and Mars in a masculine quadrant, the third. Moon in the fourth, feminine.

Moon and Sun connected by a trine (the man will marry) in masculine signs.

Mars is invisible in Pisces, so it gives some weakness.
Venus visible and matutine (oriental to the Sun) gives a very strong masculine appetite.
Venus and Mars are with the Aquarius water, one of the listed horrida sidera.

And because Venus is with Mars beheld by Saturn:

Lastly, if Saturn be in familiarity with them, he will likewise co-operate, by tending to produce greater impurity and obscenity, and greater evil altogether;

and Mercury the public scandal:

and Mercury to greater mobility, diversity, activity, and notoriety of the passions.


obviously here it is missing all the judgement about temperament and quality of the soul and the rest, but here it's quite easy to apply Ptolemy text in my opinion,

margherita

Hi Mark

In my astrological practice, I came across a combination or midpoint tree with Venus/Uranus/Neptune in charts of male homosexuals very often. Many also have/had a combination of Venus/Neptune plus another inner planet or the sun.

Just a few examples out of 8 charts checked:

Klaus Wovereit, Mayor of Berlin ? VE(MA) = UR/NE
Elton John - UR(MA) = VE/NE
George Michael ? UR = VE/NE
Leonardo da Vinci ? VE = UR/NE

If Venus represents tastes or love life, and Uranus/Neptune, strange things, the unknown, to pass boundaries, then this makes sense.

Ren?

In my astrological practice, I came across a combination or midpoint tree with Venus/Uranus/Neptune in charts of male homosexuals very often. Many also have/had a combination of Venus/Neptune plus another inner planet or the sun.

Just a few examples out of 8 charts checked:

Klaus Wovereit, Mayor of Berlin ? VE(MA) = UR/NE
Elton John - UR(MA) = VE/NE
George Michael ? UR = VE/NE
Leonardo da Vinci ? VE = UR/NE

If Venus represents tastes or love life, and Uranus/Neptune, strange things, the unknown, to pass boundaries, then this makes sense.

Ren?

Hello Rene,

Sorry for not replying to your post earlier. I dont tend to use midpoints so this is not something I would normally come across. I was wondering how many charts you have based your conclusion on excluding the ones cited above? Its obviously not a large sample.

Equally, have you noted any trends in charts for Lesbians?

Mark

I was wondering how many charts you have based your conclusion on excluding the ones cited above? Its obviously not a large sample.

Hi Marc

A friend of mine had a huge male dog, a great Dane; it was not interested in females and had other strange habits. My friend said: ?I think my dog is gay? so I did the chart (he had the birth time) and found the combination of Venus/Uranus/Neptune, looked it up in Ebertin?s cooking book and the delineation fit.

On several other occasions, I found this combination in my practise or in gay (male, I didn?t check females) celebrity charts.
When I did a more statistical search, the phenomenon, ?oh yes that fits?, disappeared. This disappearance of the aha-effect after a couple of meaningful delineations has happened to me so often and with other planetary combinations, techniques etc. that I gave up statistical searches. There must be a rule behind that disappearance. I think it?s the same as with I Ging:

It is not I who seek the young fool;
The young fool seeks me.
At the first oracle I inform him.
If he asks two or three times, it is importunity.
If he importunes, I give him no information.

Actually this happened to me after I had done the I Ging twice with the same result, THE MOUNTAIN. I was in a special state of mind and was absolutely sure that THE MOUNTAIN had to come again the third time but THE FOOL came.

Perhaps this is rather a subject for Philosophy and Science.

Ren?

Hello Rene,

Oh the old Rabbit down the hole experience..eh? Ah well it keeps us on our toes I suppose. I have always doubted that astrology will just slot neatly into reductionist methodology such as statistical analysis. However, lots of excellent astrologers would take issue with that view.

Actually this happened to me after I had done the I Ging twice with the same result, THE MOUNTAIN. I was in a special state of mind and was absolutely sure that THE MOUNTAIN had to come again the third time but THE FOOL came.

Getting Hexagram 4 after asking the same question is a common experience. The I Ching describes itself as 'an exceptional recourse' and should not be repeatedly consulted on the same issue. Its just like people trying to cast horary after horary to get the answer they want. I tend to regard the I Ching like a wise friend. Wouldn't your friend consider it rude to keep asking him/her the same question over and over?

Also from Hexagram 4 of the I Ching:

if mistrustful or unintelligent questioning is kept up, it serves only to annoy the teacher. He does well to ignore it in silence, just as the oracle gives one answer only and refuses to be tempted by questions implying doubt.

Mark

I find it strange that there is always a focus on homosexuality, but what about asexuality, otherwise known as a lack of sexuality? People like Jane Austen, Emily Dickinson, Hans Christian Anderson? I would consider myself to be asexual, since I have a very low sex drive, and my only long-term relationship was never sexual. I don't usually admit this, but for the sake of astrology, I will say I am 30 and have actually truly never been sexual, but I am an otherwise healthy, conventionally attractive female. It's out of choice basically. I have no real desire for sex, especially in the physical world. I am curious if this might be easier to see than homosexuality?

For myself, I cannot really relate it to Mars - my Mars is very strong (in Aries in the 10th - also in a day chart, so more fiery), but my Venus is very weak (conjunct Mars in Aries in the 10th, opposite Pluto). The astrologers that have looked at my chart have no idea - they go the other route (over-sexed, etc.).

Hi, Tanit!

I actually find the topic that you're suggesting very interesting and have often tried to find more examples and especially aphorisms that would shed some better light onto my confusion since, just like you and, apparently, the astrologers whom you have asked for the advice, i find it to be a very blurry area and often I believe that it is usually completely neglected .

I couldn't agree more with this:

I am curious if this might be easier to see than homosexuality?

It should.
And I believe that deb has actually already mentioned what I think is the main reason for this.

Is this of interest - the research that Kim Farnell did on this subject?
Astrology, Sex and Great Lovers - http://www.skyscript.co.uk/love.html
I seem to remember Kim saying that she found no reliable indicators of homosexuality and considered it, like gender itself, to be something that the horoscope is neutral about. However, although it is hard for me to give concrete examples, I have personally noticed signatures of unconventiality in the natal charts I have worked with of older people - but maybe because they had a harder time being socially open than the modern genration (?)

I have about 6-7 (mostly male) friends who are homosexuals and at least three of them are actually very close friends. i'm saying this because I'm very familiar with their love life and my impression is exactly the same- there are no strong signs of deviated sexual behaviour in their charts what so ever.
My best friend has known that he was gay since he was 12 . He did not wear dresses as a kid , he did not play with girls...the first time he realised that there was something "odd" going on was when his libido woke up. Around the time when most kids start noticing the opposite sex, he started noticing the same sex and that was all.

BUT, he was never really traumatized by that fact (which is a bit strange for a 15yo) , he told his parents about it when he was 17 and, though his father was a man of almost 70 at the time, the both accepted it very easily. He has never lost a single friend because he is a gay (quite the contrary), no significant inconveniences and, by all means, no unnatural sexual behaviour.
He was 21 when he lost his virginity. Not only did everything go smoothly for him, but he'd often find himself in hilarious situations constructed by people who were trying to help and express their friendly attitude. his mother used to be a huge "problem" . When he admitted that he didn't like girl ks, she said "OK" and the very next morning she told him that she had made him his first urologist appointment. She said:"I don't mind you being gay, but as long as you're one, you'll be a healthy gay!". )) And from then on, she insisted that he should see his doctor at least twice a year. And he was too embarrassed to tell her that he didn't even have sex at the time.

Soon after he became student, he was elected for the chief coordinator of the local Human Rights Group and is currently editing the newsletter of another teenage pregnancy advisory group. he is actually very ardent in spreading the knowledge about the importance of healthy sexual life among young people.
He has had only two long-term, serious relationships so far and very few flings- he is the most monogamous person that i know.
Also, he is very "masculine" and "regular" boy. The problem is that he is very goodlooking too and I my female friends usually have very hard time accepting the fact that he is a gay.

The story isn't much different in other cases either but, the bottom line is- most of them have no indications of stressful activities or events related to their love or sexual life (apart from, of course, occasionally broken hearts! )

On the other hand, his sister has got some very stressful aspects in her chart and, though she is only 38, she has been divorced twice, her first husband threatened to kidnap their kids and she had to hide her relationship with him for 4 years (they even emigrated when they were 24) because he comes from a very strict Muslim family whilst she is a Christian. Her 2nd husband was an important figure in our town and his extramarital affairs were publicly exposed some 3 years ago. She moved had to temporarily move abroad for the second time in her life because she couldn't handle the pressure.
She, of course, is straight. But her private life is very messy.

Now, as for asexuality- there are usually two possible reasons for it- a complete lack of sexual interest or a deliberate choice of the Native to completely exclude sexual activities from his/her life (monks for instance but, on occasions, scientists too- Nikola Tesla allegedly said that sexual life is a waste of time ).
But, at this point, I have to ask you if you'd feel comfortable if we opened another thread for this topic?

Tanit wrote:I find it strange that there is always a focus on homosexuality, but what about asexuality, otherwise known as a lack of sexuality? People like Jane Austen, Emily Dickinson, Hans Christian Anderson? I would consider myself to be asexual, since I have a very low sex drive, and my only long-term relationship was never sexual. I don't usually admit this, but for the sake of astrology, I will say I am 30 and have actually truly never been sexual, but I am an otherwise healthy, conventionally attractive female. It's out of choice basically. I have no real desire for sex, especially in the physical world. I am curious if this might be easier to see than homosexuality?

For myself, I cannot really relate it to Mars - my Mars is very strong (in Aries in the 10th - also in a day chart, so more fiery), but my Venus is very weak (conjunct Mars in Aries in the 10th, opposite Pluto). The astrologers that have looked at my chart have no idea - they go the other route (over-sexed, etc.).

A few points:
-Your Venus could be exalted sidereally-tends to give "Exalted love"
-There are a couple of famous mystics who have taken renunciation(sanyasa)-they too have Venus in Tropical Aries(sidereal pisces).

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramakrishna
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kriyananda%2C_Swami

Arthur Schopenhauer was heavily influenced by "Upanishads"
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sch ... %2C_Arthur

http://www.epistemelinks.com/Main/TextN ... lCode=Scho

If you are brave enough -read his "Studies in pessimism" !!

PD