13 by Mark Dr. farr wrote: The Chinese systems, the variant Western (tropical zodiac) systems, the Vedic system are all examples of whole system models; regardless of the premises upon which each is based, they all are internally consistent and, when data is inputed to each model, each returns indications/analyses/prognoses the validity of which is entirely dependant upon the skill and insight of the person using the model. The "scientific" validity or absurdity of the premises upon which the particular model is based do not matter IF the criteria of evaluation is based upon the reliability, precision and actuality of the outcomes from using that particular model. How valid are the analyses, how accurate are the prognoses, and how consistent in obtaining high quality outcomes: these are the elements which matter in evaluating any whole system model. In macrocosmic analytical work ("astrology") this depends entirely upon the personal adaptability of the artist to the particular whole system model selected, the artist's level of knowledge of that model and the artist's skillfulness in applying the selected model for a practical outcomes purpose. I cannot disagree with a word of this. Very well put! I would only add that any serious study of ancient Chinese astrology must include Derek Walters excellent book 'The Complete Guide to Chinese Astrology. I have Philippe Cornu's Tibetan Astrology. In a strict sense this is not a pure Chinese tradition of astrology at all but rather an admixture of elements from Chinese and Indian astrology. Still, the influence of Tibetan Tantric Buddhism on the later Chinese Imperial court no doubt meant such astrology was practised in the Han parts of China too. Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:13 am