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13 by Deb
Hi masyn

That's such a good analogy - for Mars especially. It also fits very well to the traditional notion of the effects of planets at perigee, which is just as relevant as the retrograde motion. You can see the strength of Mars now, when it appears at night close to the Earth and fully illuminated by the Sun.

In 2003, when Mars was at its closest perigee for 73,000 years we had all the terrible heat waves and fires across Europe. I would like to put more information about the planetary apogees and perigees on the site because these are relevant to their phases but I'm struggling to find a reliable source of information. Janus and SolarFire don't seem to include the dates and times for these events (or do they?). Does anyone know of reliable online tables where information on apogees and perigees can be accessed? Maximum elongations for the inferior planets too? There are many sites offering tools to calculate the apogees and perigees for the Moon, but none that I've found for the planets.

15 by Deb
Come to think of it, I've been handing the top link out to students - duh!

But the dates of apogees and perigees - where is this information to be found?? I predict that within the next couple of years astrologers will all working with more knowledge of the mundane cycles, so this information is going to be needed. Someone should capture the market and start putting the info together now.

16 by Deb
Hi Steven

The heliocentric perspective focuses upon perihelion (proximity to Sun) rather than perigee (proximity to Earth), so it's not that these points are now different, but that modern astronomers are less interested in them than they used to be. In the ancient system we were also looking to find the auge - the top of the epicycle - but I am pretty sure that would be the same as the modern calculation of the apogee. (Unless I'm very much mistaken :))

I don't want to take the focus away from the main theme of the thread so maybe I'll start a new thread about this soon.

(I'd love to know more about your method though, when you have the time ...)

Thanks
Deb

Reply

17 by Steve
Deb wrote
(I'd love to know more about your method though, when you have the time ...)
I ditto this!

Regards, Steve
With all our modern knowledge and scientific equipment, and with the the great strides made in mathematics, we astrologers have done nothing to even remotely compare with the achievements of the astrologers of antiquity. Cyril Fagan

18 by JulieYvonne
I'm confused about the use of perigree /apogee here concerning mars. Doesn't mars revolve around the sun?


"Derivative terms are used to identify the body being orbited. The most common are perigee and apogee, referring to orbits around the Earth (Greek ??, g?, "earth"), and perihelion and aphelion, referring to orbits around the Sun (Greek ?????, h?lios, "sun"). "

19 by handn
Hello JulieYvonne

Looks like you're right - we're technically misusing the terms, using 'apogee' and 'perigee' in a non-conventional, but still logical, way.

I believe in astronomy what we're calling here 'perigee' would be referred to as 'closest approach', though god knows what the opposite of that is correctly termed - so far I think it's referred to as 'greatest distance'.

If anyone reading this knows, I'd like to know.

Regards

H.

20 by Eddy
It's indeed a bit confusing since we live in the heliocentric astronomy era. Apogee/perigee are now only applied to the Moon, for the planets aphelion and perihelion are used.
I believe in astronomy what we're calling here 'perigee' would be referred to as 'closest approach', though god knows what the opposite of that is correctly termed - so far I think it's referred to as 'greatest distance'.
I think you'r right Handn, my astronomy annual writes in similar way, close, far, greatest disctance, there are no real distinct terminologies I believe.

Mars was in opposition 29 January 2010, but closest to Earth 27 January.
If the planets' orbits were perfect circles these data would coincide but since the orbits are ellipses these differences occur. Mars is in aphelion 31 March, this is called an 'aphelic opposition', so quite the opposite of the close opposition of 2003 which was a 'perihelic opposition'.

Here's a list of Mars oppositions and closest approaches
http://seds.org/~spider/spider/Mars/marsopps.html , 'dist AU' is the distance to Earth measured in Astronomical Units (i.e. the distance of the Earth to the Sun approximately, 150,000,000km).

22 by JulieYvonne
Thanks for clearing that up, handn.

Getting back to the OP, I was a little startled that there was such a tepid response to the basic question of starting a job with mars Rx. Is this because astrologers here have no personal experience with the Rx, or that it is not the right question for this forum, or traditional sources are silent?

The retrograde cycle of mars is unique of the superior planets in that it does not trine the sun during its retrograde phase, forming only the quincunx and opposition. For this reason alone it is said to have an extremely unsettling and disruptive influence during the Rx phase. In addition, the relative rarity of mars Rx, compared to the other superior planets, would indicate it is a difficult energy to assimilate. We are not "used" to it.

Why would anyone want to begin anything under these conditions?

24 by JulieYvonne
Rx is only a small part of the planets zodiacal state
I disagree strongly. I believe mercury, venus and mars are profoundly altered by retrograde status.
My point in this is that even had Mars been Rx, it has absolutely no relationship to the matter at hand and what was being started.
Surely you see the problem here? You offer an electional chart to prove mars Rx had no effect, but mars wasn't Rx. I don't understand how this chart supports your theory. In your chart mars is separating from saturn in the 12th house. Perhaps if mars had been moving back to conjunct saturn and perfect the square to jupiter we would have another marital story.

I can't comprehend the idea that mars has "absolutely no relationship" to beginnings, no matter what they are.
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