PallasAthene wrote:Re Lennon's chart...

The fact is the lord of the 10th is debilitated. And in the sign of the triplicity ruler's (the "get out" planet) detriment.

Olivia, is steven's explanation what you were thinking of?

Yes.

PallasAthene wrote:Re Lennon's chart...

The fact is the lord of the 10th is debilitated. And in the sign of the triplicity ruler's (the "get out" planet) detriment.

Olivia, is steven's explanation what you were thinking of?

Yes.

lol, did steven mean the first example?

wintersa wrote: Mars in Virgo on the Midheaven, sextiling Mercury in Scorpio in the 12th. Both planets have some dignities of their own, apart from the mutual reception. I can't tell if the reception will give Mercury a "way out" of the 12th house (i.e., enough strength to act), and whether Mars should be considered malefic in that connection or not. Any thoughts are much appreciated.

I guess so, since Lennon's mercury in the 7th in the 6:30 chart. Confusion cleared up then!


SO, can anyone explain Lennon's success? Rendering as explained by Olivia isn't working in the chart.

Thanks


What Steven meant knows only Steven for sure. But I'm sure he was referring to the example in THIS thread.

Yes and Eddy brought in the Lennon chart so we have 2 examples in this thread now.

Haven't studied John Lennon's chart, but have you looked at the fixed stars? Those usually lend a hand in cases of extreme fame.

As to whether what Steven meant was what I was thinking about? Uhhh....not mind readers here

At least some of us aren't.

steven wrote: Mars then "lifts and aids" Mercury because it does "render its light" to the ascendant from an optimal place. This would be a strength to the natives profession and his livelihood.

Olivia, is this what you meant by rendering? Just trying to learn here.

Aaarrgghhh, I need to rewrite all of that.

I'd just come back to read your post fully. And to say thanks for such a generous reply! Don't worry if it's to much to do.. I'll try and find the references. I don' think it applies to Lennon's chart anyway.

Unfortunately a good part of it was incorrect. So you're not likely to find references.

Rendering works the same way in natal as it does in horary, if that helps any.

[quote="Olivia"]Haven't studied John Lennon's chart, but have you looked at the fixed stars? Those usually lend a hand in cases of extreme fame.

I believe Olivia is quite correct here:
In the Lennon natal chart (constructed by Whole Sign) we find:

+Part of Fortune highest place in chart, posited in the first 3 degrees of the 10th house, conjunct the MC (its only negative aspect being square Mars-which of course correlates with the "ending" of Lennon's fortune by a martial act); the Part of Fortune is long. conjunct POLIS, a triple, constructive star of Jupiter/Mars quality, giving "success, high ambition...keen perception and domination"

+The Asc is parallel the powerful (1st magnitude) BETELGEUZE, a (generally) constructive star of Mercury-trine-Saturn-trine-Jupiter quality, giving"preferment, wealth, invention, ingenuity and...helps in the perfection of arts..." **

+Moon is long. conjunct GIEDI, a multiple, constructive star of Venus/Mercury quality, giving beneficence, but also with the Moon indicating..."peculiar and unexpected events; eccentric; valuable gifts; influential friends; love by women; platonic marriage..."
+Also Moon is parallel LABRUM ("The Holy Grail"), a constructive star of Venus/Mercury quality, giving "ideality, intelligence, very good fortune... purifies to salvation."

+Jupiter long. conjunct ALMACH, a constructive ternary star of Venusian quality, giving "honor, eminence and artistic ability."

Some of the trials in Lennon's life are suggested by Sun long. conjunct Seginus, and also by the parallel between Jupiter and Algenib. However, these stellar affinities do not substantially detract from the major star connection influences described earlier.

The most negative prognostic indication in the Lennon nativity is the position of Dragon's Tail in 1st house (by Whole Sign); the DT being in the sign of Aries:
... "Dragon's Tail in 1st House shortens the life"
..."Dragon's Tail in Aries may shorten life due to Martial causes."
Lennon's life ended prematurely due to being shot to death-a Mars-quality situation-through use of a gun-a Martial instrument.
Note also the Part of Fortune square Mars aspect in the natal chart, as well as the Mars square MC aspect.

(** By remarkable coincidence {?} the historical English language "slang" name of this star is "BEETLE juice"...)

Thanks Dr Farr. Yes, I think the NN is more suited to the 7th due to the working partnership with McCartney which shaped the history of pop music and his own destiny.

Tom wrote:

Saturn in the 12th.. do you want it to get out?

In what sign? Good question though I've wondered about it myself. Perhaps Saturn in Leo in 12 is best left there. Saturn joys in the 12th.

Mercury in leo, jupiter in gemini, MR by triplicity. So mercury benefits by having a planet in its sign of rulership.. and jupiter "looses" it's detrimented status?

I don't think so. Detriment is an essential and like essential dignity it doesn't change. I think Jupiter would gain accidental strength but he is still essentially debilitated.

Tom

Can somebody explain me "Saturn joy in 12 house". I understand what the joy house means but i am little confused when Saturn is in question.

In traditional astrology Saturn is the worse planet, and the 12 house is the worst house. So what exactly Saturn do in house 12. Is he more or less destructive in house 12 ? Can somebody define joy of Saturn in 12 house. In real life example.