But it could not be this man is a gay?

Why is it so often assumed first that when someone has a lack of sexual drive they must be gay? Many gay people have perfectly normal sexual appetities, just as any other sexual preference. Male/female characteristics of the planets don't really make sense, since we all have male and female planets, regardless of sign placements. Should we also look at male/female characteristics of the houses then or diurnal vs. nocturnal charts, sect? It is not reliable to look at male/female signs and state someone's sexual preferences, but you might say that masculine planets make someone more outspoken, confident, driven, etc., whereas feminine are introverted, gentle, sometimes insecure, etc. I don't see how it relates to attractions at all. Uranus in the 5th is often attracted to someone different than themselves, so if he does have a predominance of female planets, one might assume he'd be attracted to someone with more masculine ones, but that could still obviously be a female person. He is not deficient in masculine planets anyway, and his wife has 8 planets in masculine signs. Are we questioning her sexuality?

As I mentioned in the sexual orientation post, there is a possibility that someone may be asexual, or otherwise known as not sexual (towards either gender), though there might be some sort of attraction (not necessarily sexual) for one or both genders. For myself, I have never been sexual, and I share many characteristics with this man. I have Sun in Taurus in the 11th opposite Uranus in the 5th house. He has a Moon-Neptune square, I have a conjunction in the 6th. Moon-Neptune can make someone have higher/spiritual values in love and sexual acts can be seen as crude or base to them, and lofty platonic relationships are common. I also have a 3rd house Saturn with Mercury trine like him, although his Saturn is in detriment. Saturn in the 3rd often makes someone shy, melancholy and unable to relate well to others. A Mercury-Saturn mind is also very serious. Like him, my Mercury is a bit beseiged (he has a Mercury-Mars, Mercury-Saturn trine). I have Jupiter in the 1st/Pluto in the 4th too... he and I are oddly similar in many ways.

Tanit wrote:

But it could not be this man is a gay?

Why is it so often assumed first that when someone has a lack of sexual drive they must be gay? Many gay people have perfectly normal sexual appetities, just as any other sexual preference. .

I told like that because of so many feminine inputs, but then with the wife chart under my eyes, I changed my mind.

It should be some game between them, she is aggressive and he is virginal.

About outer planets and other I don't know, I follow traditional astrology, but surely here you can find someone with a more modern approach,

nice thread in every case,
margherita

the Gemini asc did make me wonder at first if he were not interested in another person, of whatever gender. (as in sometimes the gemini ascendent just seems to be a person that always wants more than one person) BUT, the Jupiter on the Ascendent of the wife and wife a water person makes me wonder if perhaps a weight issue might be involved. Especially as Jupiter is plowing through Pisces right now.

It isn't an issue for everyone but for some people it is more an issue than others.

Did you notice they both have Jupiter in their first house, he also has a lovely mutual reception between moon and Jupiter, but I do find it interesting they both have these lovely first house Jupiter's. I can't help but think a horary would be of more benefit in this case.

I do also wonder if he isn't passive aggressive. as in with holding affection because he's annoyed about something...

Granny

Granny/Eddy/Margherita/Tanit

Thank you all for your inputs . I give below some clarification to the extent my knowledge goes
-He is not the Gay type. May be he has faminine tastes.
-The wife is not at all dominant or aggressive but soft natured and sympathetic/tolerant. She is hoping that one day a good sexual relationship will dawn on them. On his part the husband feels guilty in not being able to satisfy his wife inspite of his efforts to do so. In this situation he does not know what to do,except to approach some medical consultants.

My question is whether they will continue to be friends liking each other without sexual preferences ,as Tanit put it, or any legal seperation can be thought of . The wife however is not thinking in this line.

Regards

Kannan

I see that I was totally in the wrong direction about the wife. Interesting though to see that Margherita and I got to the same conclusion using different methods.

Since ten years from time to time I try to use only the classical planets. Just since a few days I again said to myself I should try it with only these but now I strongly feel the temptation to use the three modern planets again .

My question is whether they will continue to be friends liking each other without sexual preferences ,as Tanit put it, or any legal seperation can be thought of . The wife however is not thinking in this line.

That's hard to tell, I personally/morally wouldn't support a separation for this reason but I think that the Saturn transit over the wife's Mars, Saturn, Moon in Libra could indicate a period of feelings of melancholy. Note that Saturn now is transiting square his Ascendant and last year was near his IC. It indicates that the problem now manifests as being a problem. When I notice the melancholical effects of Saturn I feel I should not give in but that I have to give an 'antidote' by being in nature, going sporting and abstaining from things like alcohol and sugar.

I'm afraid I can't see much more through the chart and I feel that trying to look for more I would enter the realm of 'guessing' and this would do more harm than well. I hope he has a nice birthday .

Eddy wrote:I see that I was totally in the wrong direction about the wife. Interesting though to see that Margherita and I got to the same conclusion using different methods.

It's strange. A Scorpio Ascendant with the Moon with Mars and Saturn which gives a quiet temperament. Moreover Mars, ruler of the Ascendant is very hot, being retrograde, and Moon the same, having left the FM since 2 days; both hot for quadrant.

and where we should see these gentle manners in the chart? strange, strange.....

margherita

The wife as I see her n the chart, is of a subtle, implicit sexuality. Fantasies, implicit notions, words unspoken, sentiment/sex brooding. Yet quite a drifter physically. A drifter that wants to be *conquered* from the inside. Perhaps conquered is a word with too much negative semiotics but I mean it as an immense union. But she also has Pluto conjunct her moon and as much as pluto is a modern planet, I've seen it act quite powerfully in relation to the lights. Power games in a deeper emotional level may float her boat. I doubt she likes to be the domineer, too much 12th and Pluto affects her moon, not her sun, with a conjunction, not a square.
She may look very good, even upfront outwardly but, when it comes to the real thing, she wants fantasy, perhaps mystery, an internal sensation of "he wants me real bad" and a more aggressive/domineering man. Saturn restricts her too. That moon is a coquette and 'what people say', trying to act gently and 'properly', he may like dirtier talks. Btw, I think we can see it as a fact that no matter what, she will still be more sexually 'powerful' than him.

He is different. Both his sexual planets are in male signs and they form a sextile, I think he is pretty male-ish. He has kinks but his kinks are different from his wife's. Inconjunctly different. Some of the kinks they hopefully share but they lack the way to communicate their common kinks to each other. There is good chance he is too shy to admit he likes certain games/toys or -worse- he may even be ignorant about it. And he goes slow in building momentum.

At this point we should address the physical factors. A guy can be on his own or with other women very sexual but having a grossly fat woman (whom he may love a lot) can kill his sexual prowess, or he may like huge boobs and she has small and flat ones (or vice versa).
A woman that is very sensual with other guys may have the unluckiness of having a husband she loves but he is medically "poor" in size. Such an unlucky incident can cause her to abstain from sex and before you jump into "size doesn't matter", yes it does. She may love him forever but she will try to avoid his 3 inches 'love'.
He may feel bad about his size (or something else that relates to sex) and that can stop him from wanting sex overall.
Discretion and realism mixed with art. Can we know for sure, whether he is not thrilled due to some aesthetic reasons? Are we sure there is no actual medical reason stopping him? Sugar blood, diabetes, etc? Is he under medication that may hinder his sexual potential?

My suggestion would be - assuming he is healthy: toys he likes and more implementation of the potential of their mercuries. Sex is primarily a mental procedure for both sexes, is brain function. He has gemini asc, mars in leo, check if he has certain physical dislikes that mess with his brain sexual functions.
As a single glance, he is more superficial sexually than she is.

Hi, al!

As Eddy already mentioned we have touched this topic in another thread but I believe that it is always welcome to have a place to discuss such issues since such questions are fairly common.

Now, when I first took up learning Astrology (and I was about 20 at the time), I remember how sad I was when i discovered that my Venus and Mars were not forming an aspect because the literature was full of warnings - no aspects= doomed in love; a benevolent aspect=femme fatale.
This is the 4th chart in row with a benevolent Mars/Venus aspect that I'm looking at and that actually belongs to a person with reduced sexual desire.
Of course, this still doesn't mean that women are not attracted to him- his wife obviously wants him!

But, it is definitely not that simple, is it'!

margherita wrote:But it could not be this man is a gay? What about other women?

This is Ptolemy - I mentioned in another thread:

"The oriental and diurnal positions of Mars and Venus also contribute to more masculine and more reputable qualities; and their occidental and vespertine positions to qualities more feminine, and more sordid."

This is what every astrologer repeated. This is Antonio da Montulmo talking about luminaries (but it is the same, they are mentioned by Ptolemy too in the same chapter):

if they are in feminine signs, and in feminine quadrants, and occidental the native have effeminate manners...

Incidentally, i have at least 4 very dear friends who are gay (they're all men) and a few more charts of gay people whom I have had a chance to talk about their sexual life (as an astrologer, of course! ) and I have been through these Ptolemy's aphorisms (as well as some other "rules" left by other traditional authors) many, many times and I have found them to be insufficient to say the least.
When I say this, I'm not suggesting that the traditional authorities were wrong , of course, but I believe that it is worth keeping one thing in mind and that is- their explanations couldn't have been very straightforward and completely open in the first place, could they? Or even detailed enough! Because, if they were, then the books would have most probably be banished!
So, we certainly need more than just this!
After reading a few books written by our contemporaries, i'm not sure that Modern astrology has managed to untangle these questions (homosexuality, lack of sexual desire etc.) entirely either. Quite the opposite, gay population often labels them "discriminatory" and maybe they're right- maybe the society simply expects us to forget about the "hetero/homo" part to simply provide useful informations about the love life of the Native. That would be a fair request.

But, still, how come we so often fail to notice that a person is, for instant gay or, even more importantly- assume that he/she might be gay though he/she isn't?

In another thread, i have mentioned my impressions after analyzing the charts of some gay people and, apparently, Deb's impression is quite similar (I don't remember if anyone else mentioned the same thing in the thread) and I'll briefly repeat it here- if the charts shows strong promise for stressful events caused by the Native's private life, then they could mean anything from "she will be crucified for having an affair with a married man" to "he will be crucified for being gay". At he same time- no signs of stressful events or tensions can be found in both the charts of gay and hetero people. Deb mentioned something very important in that thread :

Deb wrote:I seem to remember Kim [Farnell] saying that she found no reliable indicators of homosexuality and considered it, like gender itself, to be something that the horoscope is neutral about. However, although it is hard for me to give concrete examples, I have personally noticed signatures of unconventiality in the natal charts I have worked with of older people - but maybe because they had a harder time being socially open than the modern genration (?)

The only thing I have to support this idea is a list of less then 10 dates of birth of gay people but, the truth is- to me it seems that it is exactly how the things work.

So, back to your quotes, margherita- my main impressions are that not only is the placement of masculine planets in feminine signs (in the chart of a male person) a very weak indicator of homosexuality but, it can very often be found in the charts of people who also look pretty masculine. Which makes me wonder (again!) what exactly did the traditional authors have in mind when they were talking about effeminate manners.
Many times I have noticed that people who have equally stressed masculine and feminine signs in their chart actually have a very well balanced behaviour and stable relationships. Masculine principle can often help women and it isn't always very obvious either. (Just think of all those beautiful women in the history who were capable of creating as well as destroying kingdoms; who actually used their beauty and femininity as their most powerful weapons- that is a great example of a masculine/feminine mix of influences; beauty as weapon).

Similarly, Saturn can help in keeping a cold-headed attitude. You will hardly see a woman with Saturn/Venus aspect jumping from one relationship into another but, with a benevolent aspect and additional conformations of positivity in the chart, such woman is more likely a "hard-to-get" type of woman then a "nun".

Similarly (or not!)- the core of the problem and its manifestation do not need to appear in the same "clothes". A good example (that most likely involves some negative saturnian influence is nymphomania= experts say that one huge percent of women who suffer from this condition are actually frigid. So, we have a great example of excess sexual activity and uncontrollable sexual desire that is actually divorced from the feeling of joy.


But, in this particular case, maybe we are just talking about a medical problem- does he not feel interested or is he impotent (impotency does not exclude sexual desire, it usually manifests as a techical obstacle and I believe no further explanations are required here)?

margherita wrote:and where we should see these gentle manners in the chart? strange, strange...

Jupiter on the Ascendant and Venus on IC could give the good sides for a peaceful house life. Because of the square between these two planets I first had believed them to be less good, in the sense of desire for luxury. Combined with the oppositions to the husband's Sun and Mars I expected more negativity.

Her Mars, Saturn, Moon in XII perhaps should not be related to the relationship but rather to the 'hidden enemies' or social isolation. Although I don't look at houses very often, I found something in a friend's chart that indicated his 'hidden enemies' and in relation with his XIIth house which seemed quite convincing. Perhaps the problem is more her's after all. I mean in the sense that the issue bothers her the most.

My friend is not excited about sexual life but his wife's expectations are shatterd.

So perhaps he sees it less as a problem than she does and could find more peace with it? When I look at the birth locations being the same in India, I wonder to what extent cultural matters play a role. Is it the sexual desire as it is or is it rather in the direction of the need to get children from a social environmental point of view? If the latter is the case then I can imagine that the sextile of the MC to Mars in detriment would not be so positive. Combined with Saturn and Moon all in XII could emphasize the fear of social isolation or even exclusion.

Sun in V (house of children) in inconjunct with Saturn could indicate a problem with childlessness. Note that in Indian astrology the Sun is a malefic. And as far as I know in classical Western astrology the Sun isn't that wonderfull either. At least not the 'I' and the 'ego' that Alan Leo made out of it. If her chart would have been drawn in sidereal signs, the Sun would be in her detriment in sidereal Aquarius. But if the systems would interchange so easily then it would make the astrology rather a cultural product than my preferred natural astrology.

Now I reread my post I'm afraid that with my emphasis on childlessness I could just have made one of my guesses which I feared to do .

aglaya wrote:I remember how sad I was when i discovered that my Venus and Mars were not forming an aspect because the literature was full of warnings

I recognise this. The only planet in my chart that seems to perform well is the unaspected one .

Eddy wrote: Jupiter on the Ascendant and Venus on IC could give the good sides for a peaceful house life. Because of the square between these two planets I first had believed them to be less good, in the sense of desire for luxury. Combined with the oppositions to the husband's Sun and Mars I expected more negativity.

Her Mars, Saturn, Moon in XII perhaps should not be related to the relationship but rather to the 'hidden enemies' or social isolation. A

I agree and don't agree, but yes, there is something more, you are right -

jupiter at the Ascendant gives some sanguine note, even if it is retrograde too and this makes him hotter than its basic nature. I would say she is a choleric/sanguine - you can choose in which order.

But Moon cannot only be limited to enemies because it is in the 12th, it's a part of the temperament. And Satun has a clear rulership on soul (this is with Morinus software) - I use the Renaissance variant including the temperament.

About traditional attribution of feminine-masculine qualities this is the standard method used and checked by everybody.
It is truth there were women in every time that reigned and created and destroyed kingdoms, but they did their way iwith feminine manners. For a woman it is not necessary to use masculine qualities to have success, we can do our way and very well

margherita-

Eddy wrote:

aglaya wrote:
I remember how sad I was when i discovered that my Venus and Mars were not forming an aspect because the literature was full of warnings

I recognise this. The only planet in my chart that seems to perform well is the unaspected one Surprised.

My applying trine between my Venus and Mars, works exactly as it should. Bringing ease, quality and numbers in the matter. Perfect benevolence, luck and abundance; sexual prosperity is more descriptive. Trines work as promised.

aglaya wrote:
Similarly, Saturn can help in keeping a cold-headed attitude. You will hardly see a woman with Saturn/Venus aspect jumping from one relationship into another but, with a benevolent aspect and additional conformations of positivity in the chart, such woman is more likely a "hard-to-get" type of woman then a "nun".

You make an exceptional observance in that! Saturn trine Venus, restricts her slutiness, makes her hard to get. Saturn conjunct Venus makes her deprived, imprisoned. Saturn opposing Venus makes whores or completely deprived sexually and vicious, at the very best illness and social decline via sex and marriage:

? ?????? ????????? ????????? ???????, ?????????, ???????
?????, ?? ?? ??? ???????, ??????????? ? ????? ???????? ? ?????? ?
???????????, ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ???????????? ??????? ?????.

Then again, marrying a foreigner was also considered a social decline back then.

Looking at these charts in the sidereal zodiac, the husband has Venus in Taurus trapped in the 12th which, in Vedic astrology, is bed pleasures and in the square of Saturn giving a natural ascetic bent. This is reinforced in the Navamsa which has Saturn and Venus conjunct in Aries (Saturns' Fall and Venus not functioning well) with the Rahu (North Node) which is similar in nature to Saturn (ascetic bent). And the wife's chart has Mars and Saturn conjunct in the 12th indicating her frustration with bed pleasures. Saturn is in MR with Mercury dispositor in the 5th so her primary concern may be that they will have no children due to her husband's lack of sexual drive.
Looking at the Ashtakavarga totals for the 5th (children) in both charts, they are below average for both natives indicating they are unlikely to have many children; however, the 5th house from Jupiter, in Jupiter's bhindus, have good strength in both charts which would indicate children are possible. As well, Jupiter is in the 1st in both charts and so trine the 5th in both, again indicating children are possible.