MarkC wrote: Hello Joakim, welcome to the mundane forum.

Thanks Mark,

I am by no means any Mundane expert but it's what I find to be most interesting with astrology nowadays.

I'm a bit short of time right now so just a few comments to your reply and more later as I get time or things unfold.

MarkC wrote:

JoakimS wrote:There is another chart I would consider to look at for more cluse of the outcome of the election and which I haven't seen here - or elesewhere - the chart for the moment when Brown make public the elections will be on May 6th. Sure one can argue here the time he when to the Queen or gave here the message etc. would be more significant although I see the announcement more as the "birth moment" when the energy was released. If anyone know the time for that event it would be very interesting, even if only as a after study.

Excellent point. I did try to pin down a time for this but failed. It would be very interesting to see I agree. The problem with the meeting with the Queen is that it takes 20-30 minutes. Hard to time. Stephen Birchfield used the time Brown became prime minister as a key momemnt for determining his time in office. The announcement of the election would be an interesting chart to study.

I think the announcement is most significant and what's taken place emediately before is more like part of the "pregnancy development", well that's my take on it. As the moment was broadcasted, live possibly, it should be possible to track down, if nothing else by contacting BBC or maybe someone of its iNet front figures. Also this page has a video of the moment and if you look at it you will see GB creates a shadow as he steps forward which could be used to for at least some accuracy, if you know how it looks there and can direment the compass directions. I guess it isn't possible though to get so up close to no. 10 to "recreate" it

MarkC wrote:

JoakimS wrote:Personally I think Clegg has what it takes "but" it's too early for him, and his best move whould be not to get into a coalition with Tory, and I think he's smart enough to catch that - but you never know.

Clegg seems very well connected to the UK chart (1927). Although there now appear signs he has peaked too early in this campaign as the Liberal Democrat support seems to to have decreased somewhat after the highs following the first leaders debate.

I guess it depends on how you see it but I think it's just the right time and he is supposed to "fade" a bit to let Cameron take over. It's always really hard to look through what Neptune is up to but no doubt it plays an important part in the outcome of the Saturn/Uranus conjunction.

Like in being an "representant" for the Media, and inderectly the polls they now spit out every day. It's pretty sure they don't give the correct picture, in other terms they are off with more then the traditional error marginal. Why? I see 2 "Neptune" reasons and probably it's a mixure of them. 1. They are produced with a delusive intent to favor what "everybody" (read the Market) wants, a Tory goverment. 2. They are done too much in a "traditional" way missing out on larger groups the accounted for in the error marginal. As I understand it they are mostly done by phone, but do they also call mobile phones and to what extent? How many people haven't lost or scrapped their phone bc of the resession? I think this favours LibDem but I am not absolute sure about it as I am a bit too far away from the happening to get a true feeling for the atmoshere.

Yes for Clegg to be PM there must be an electorial reform first OR someone (read Cameron) must first fail misserably in delivery on his promisses. Which could lead to a second peak for Clegg, this time strong enough to blow Saturn away. Here we get back to Saturn/Uranus again where the former is on top in the Poll Close chart. I see this as the "old way" aka fear will win (again?) this time, which (proberly) will deliver Cameron as PM. But in the long run, Neptune and Uranus will bring it down.

I hope my reasoning is understandable as english isn't my native language. I may also add that I don't really fancy "prediction" as I belive free will always is in play up until the moment of decition which will deliver the result. This apply more though on a personal horoscope but also in mundane the results come down to the actions and decisions by the main players involved in it and there also free will is the ruler of the horoscope itself. On the other side of the coin though, most people seem to be in a hurry to give up their free will or live in an illusion about it - but that's another dicussion :-)

EDIT: Just want to add, although mostly belive in a minority Tory gov I am not certain of it and it can very well be a majority as well, but is certain Toty will "win", and then fail. The question of course is how much they will be able to damage and hurt UK. With all respect for Mr. Cameron but at the end of the day he's only a fron runner (read "genral") for the Capital and the Market, and the tag "hung parlament" is nothing but an invention by the Market willingly adpated and spinned on by the Tory's. It's pure nonsense as it only mean people (and politicians) has to start cooperate and listen to each other, acknowledging.

MarkC wrote:

JoakimS wrote:There is another chart I would consider to look at for more cluse of the outcome of the election and which I haven't seen here - or elesewhere - the chart for the moment when Brown make public the elections will be on May 6th. Sure one can argue here the time he when to the Queen or gave here the message etc. would be more significant although I see the announcement more as the "birth moment" when the energy was released. If anyone know the time for that event it would be very interesting, even if only as a after study.

Excellent point. I did try to pin down a time for this but failed. It would be very interesting to see I agree. The problem with the meeting with the Queen is that it takes 20-30 minutes. Hard to time. Stephen Birchfield used the time Brown became prime minister as a key momemnt for determining his time in office. The announcement of the election would be an interesting chart to study.

It's really in the 11th hour now so maybe not of much "predictive" value but I was able to google this; This channel4 page say:

The prime minister left 10 Downing Street at 10am this morning to formally ask the Queen to dissolve parliament

And then Belfast Telegraph has:

Mr Brown was whisked to Buckingham Palace after a final Cabinet meeting this morning, arriving at 10.05am - 15 minutes after the Queen arrived from Windsor by helicopter. He left at 10.27am.

I'm not sure how far it is from no. 10 to Buckingham but I think one can assume the 10am time isn't exact and could as well been 5 to 10, I simply don't know what could be a resonable time to get there, a time to add to 10.27am in such case. Then it's also clear he went indoors when getting back before getting out to make the announcement.

However, if 10.27am is correct for him leaving Buckingham Palace then it may be a valid and usable time as well, thoughts?

I do hope to open a thread following the UK election result which will involve a retrospective of Aries Ingress charts before elections to see which method produces the most consistently reliable results.

I hope you do too.

I just remembered that, as I have used the method of ingresses for a few years now, that I didn?t get a hit with Canada, which is parliamentary country.

I have this idea that maybe the 11th house would me more important than 10th in parliamentary countries!

so it would be an interesting exercise.

I just remembered that, as I have used the method of ingresses for a few years now, that I didn?t get a hit with Canada, which is parliamentary country.

Its been a long thread and a long election campaign so I forget...did you predict anything for the UK election?

I have this idea that maybe the 11th house would me more important than 10th in parliamentary countries!

Now you tell us!

I clearly need to study the traditional delineation of ingress charts more. For example, I see both Stephen Birchfield and Ben Dykes referring to The Lord of the Year but I dont have enough information from either to practically work with this. I will probably open a thread on the traditional forum on this.

However, if 10.27am is correct for him leaving Buckingham Palace then it may be a valid and usable time as well, thoughts?

Its worth a look I guess. However, I was more interested in the public announcement time by Brown. Going to the Queen to dissolve Parliament does represent the formal end of a Parliament. However, the announcement of the election can be see as the inception of the election event.

Incidentally, I have found out that constitutionally Gordon Brown remains Prime Minister up until he decides to resign after the election! Its normally, an academic point as usually one party is the clear winner so the losing leader resigns. However, if its a hung parliament it leaves him in a constutionally good negotiating position to form a coalition. David Cameron cannot form a minority government or coalition unless Brown resigns as Prime Minister after failing to form a colaition with the Liberals first. If that happens Brown may choose to resign to make the way clear for a new Labour leadership election.

Mark

For example, I see both Stephen Birchfield and Ben Dykes referring to The Lord of the Year but I dont have enough information from either to practically work with this.

It has its subtlety, but it is not that difficult.

Basically you look for planets that have dignity on the ascendent and look for the one that:
a- is aspecting the asc (whole sign)
b - has some dignity in the place where it is.
c - has more accidental dignity.

A luminar in an angle aspecting a planet, specially with reception, can make this planet lord of the year.

I personally don?t feel the lord of the year give us enough information.

ts been a long thread and a long election campaign so I forget...did you predict anything for the UK election?

I commented on, but I didn?t gave a shot because I don?t understand this whole "hung parlament" thing, and I thought it would too much of hindsight as we already know that Labour is in shaky ground.

Now you tell us!

This is just an hypothesis, so please don?t take it too seriously.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/poli ... 666128.stm

Exit polls, I know, but still interesting as they predict that a Labour/Lib Dem coalition gov't is not possible.

Maybe its text has been updated, but what that BBC page says is:

Labour cannot now win a majority, but it is not clear which party will be in a position to form a government.

The psychology of the current position is very interesting. There are still results to come in but it seems that the Conservative majority is not enough to avoid a hung Parliament, and Brown has indicated that he is not in any hurry to offer his resignation. Both he and Clegg have urged that decisions should not be made quickly, and that everyone should get sleep and rest before resuming talks and making the big decisions. What we?ll have now is a media propaganda battle ? the conservatives arguing for a moral victory, with their press supporters stressing that Brown is a loser and needs to step down since he has no credibility; Labour arguing that the democratic message of the public is that it wants a coalition government which is its duty to deliver; and the Lib Dems keeping tight-lipped as they wait to hear the offers. The commentators are describing this as an election in which all parties appear to have failed; but this is the point at which things could get pretty ugly. If votes don?t lead to a clear decision, its going to be all down to spin, psychology and propaganda....

"Brown gives green light for civil service to support other parties in talks" in a written announcement read up live by reported outside No 10 at 11:25 BST

Not sure how much to tell from this chart alone but has some strong points, Mc In Aries with ruler Mars just below Ascendant in Leo, but at the same time Mars squares Sun in Taurus.

At the same time Clegg show he's smart and has a back bone by sticking to his word (11:40) and show he's the man for the future. I like this, he challange David Cameron! This will be really interesting to follow - almost as I wish I was Brittish ha

The comment of the day "A Mick Jagger Election - No satisfaction!"

Glad that you are enjoying all the excitement Joakim!!

The latest is that David Cameron will make a statement at 14:30 BST today and that Clegg has said that the Conservatives should have the first chance to form a government.

The electorate have thrown all the cards in the air but maybe some result will be seen today.

Matt