No water and only Mercury in earth so someone who lived in their head perhaps, I wonder what he made of it being unaspected even though it is strong in Virgo.

May present as an eccentric character with the attention needing 1st house Moon, Sun in Leo as well so probably no wallflower, tied in with Uranus.

Could be interested in and comfortable with probing into (tight Nep/Pluto conjunction in the 8th) more mysterious realms with the ruler, as well as Mercury, in the 12th.

Mars is near enough to the third, to suggest his energy went into thinking/writing. If so could be the time is a bit out?

Hello all,

I hope everybody has had a interesting time of it so far, and many people have been getting positive hits. I plan to keep it up at least until next Wednesday, so folks can keep cracking at it before Steven shows up and everyone else just gives up on trying to top him.

If people want to play around it particular years, you can try 1908 or 1921; he was in Providence during both years, if that factors into your technique(s).

I guess I'll play too. I might as well go all the way.

Venus as ASC ruler conjunct ASC and both sextile Mars: A good dash of choleric added to a strongly sanguine temperament. Mars in a diurnal chart is more problematic and prone to cause trouble, and being in the mutable fire sign makes him feistier, more erratic with a strong tendency to fly off. Therefore, I don't want to go too far with the gracious host and tactful diplomat idea. There might be an indication here of being prone to acting impetuously and to disadvantage.

Moon in the 1st is a people pleaser. The Moon recently conjoined its dispositor, Venus, and is now applying sextile the 11th house Sun. Officially they are out of orb, but I can still see the Moon as carrying something Venus-signified to the Sun. With Venus as Ld of 1st I would imagine the Moon is bringing the native to his friends/colleagues/associates (Sun as L of 11th and placed in 11). The Moon rules the MC, so it signifies how and where the native acts in the world. With the Moon in the 1st I see him acting for himself. The people-pleasing Moon is peregrine ? can we apply Lilly's horary signification regarding peregrination indicating a thief? Maybe it's one hint at thievery. Being so closely applying conjunct Uranus the Moon would seem to indicate a strong dose of 'a law unto one's self '[or oneself? - I'm too lazy to look it up], a tendency to do things one's own way. That Uranus contact could be a good way for a peregrine Moon to go down a wrong road.



Rather than referring to death I'm seeing the importance of the 8th in this chart (Venus as ruler) referring to the money and resources of others. Mars rules the native's money, and Mars and native-signifying Venus are sextile and aspectually tied to the ASC and DESC. An indication of ?Your money is my money?? Mars rules the 7th but the Sun is almuten with rulership by exaltation, triplicity and face, so the Sun and Mars both point to an important 7th house (partnerships/contracts), even though it's unoccupied. The Sun is in the 11th house: the money/resources of his boss or other powerful people? Mars is in the house of documents (3rd) and rules the house of contracts (7th). Jupiter, dispositor of Mars and Ld of the 3rd is the universal significator of wealth. It aspects Venus and Mars ? widely and separating but still in orb. I suppose I'm trying to paint an interesting portrait here: a charming thief or embezzler. But if my imagination is running away with me then I will settle for a generically charming networking, negotiating, diplomatic kind of guy involved with finances [sigh].



But there's that strong essentially dignified Mercury ? and accidentally strong by being direct, swift, occidental, and free from the Sun's beams. With all that strength it's hard to think of Mercury just sitting around in the cadent 12th house feeling weak; he's going to want to do something. Mercury in Virgo is interested in what needs to be done; he's more of a dry amoral thinker than one who is concerned with moral principles. Mercury is sextile the MC and in the 3rd from the MC so maybe we have a strong Mercury involved with the communications and documents of the native's boss.

I'm not up on the old rules, but it seems that occupying the house he rules (12th) would make Mercury very active tucked away in his hideaway. Granted, that hideaway could be a monastery; but such a social sanguine/choleric person sitting in a monastery cell? I doubt it, but Mercury does also rule the 9th (religion). And Mercury aspects no planets, not even the 3 outers. Something about that highly dignified and secretive Mercury doesn't relate to or with the other planets. But, as Tienka pointed out, it's at the bendings.

I never know what to do with the nodes so I tend to ignore them. It seems to me that I read ages ago that a planet at the bendings indicates a crisis situation, something that will need to be expressed or used sooner or later. That works well with Tienka's statement about such a planet having something to do with the profession. It's something that needs to be expressed and acted upon. The Mercury-ruled NN is in the Mercury-ruled 9th house so Mercury is linked to religion, philosophy, etc. OR ? words at a distance: publishing, television and radio broadcasting (3rd house on a bigger stage). Perhaps there was just a strong international element. But with SN in the 3rd (square Mercury), along with Mars on the cusp maybe there's some funny business with written documents or communications and contracts (Mars as Ld of 7th). I was thinking that I shouldn't spend so much time with Mercury because he only rules cadent houses and aspects no planets, but I think he probably is an important factor.



If I can't have my charming thief and embezzler then I will accept him as an out-and-about person who worked closely with others concerning finances, involving written and oral communications, or negotiations ? someone who represented and spoke for the views and interests of others. If I'm completely wrong I will simply convince myself that I've described what he truly was deep inside.


EDITED TO ADD: I seem to have lost a comment I wrote stating that I don't see indications of punishment or social downfall due to thievery, indicating that if he did indeed perform such acts he may have gotten away with it and isn't known for it.

I also forgot to mention the Sun-Saturn contact. Saturn as ASC almuten by exaltation, triplicity and face undoubtedly makes Saturn an important factor in the temperament and character. The fact that the Sun as DESC almuten is starting to consume Saturn as ASC almuten looks interesting. A metaphorical ordeal by fire through a partner, spouse or a simply vague 'other'?

For 1908 and 1921, I don't find much in directions and progressions apart from a primary directed MC at 3 Leo for 1908 and thus almost in opposition with natal Jupiter.

How exactly is the birthtime rated? 9:00 could be a somewhat rough estimate and if born a few minutes later the primary direction would be closer.

Perhaps this indicates that he went or decided to go to study at a university in a different state, maybe the first time he left his birth area. For that year the modern planets Uranus and Neptune conjunct natal IC and MC respectively. Sorry for mentioning them here but I've noticed too often that they work in transits. Possibly a difficult time for him, leaving house, homesickness.

For 1921 I only see the Saturn transit conjunct natal Mercury. Could also indicate a difficult time, nervousness.

Looking at 1921 it is interesting to see that the firdaria is about to change: on the 20th of August the Moon is the leading lady but in the months before we have a Mercury/Venus firdaria. The solar return for 1920, covering the first 8 months of 1921 is interesting especially if we use profections. The ascendant and the Moon are profected to the 7th sign Aries. In the natal chart we find mars on the South Node, squaring Saturn and sextiling Venus. Mars in the solar return of 1920 is in Scorpio conjunct the Moon in the 12th sign. Mars is the ruler of the 4th in this solar return and his natal ascendant Libra is in this sr the sign on the mc: the lord Venus is in fall, conjunct saturn. It is interesting that Saturn is lord of the year by profection of his natal MC. So close to a debilitated venus, significator of the mother in his natal chart, and the natural ruler of relationships, now ruling his MC, profession but mother as well, suggest to me that mother/women are high on the agenda but not in a favorable manner. The Moon, debilitated, rules the 8th house in the SR and is squaring the Sun and Jupiter lord of the ascendant in this SR. The Alcabitius house system places the Sun, Jupiter and Mercury in the 8th of the SR, again an indication of crisis, to my opinion.
My guess would be that this could be a year of crisis, connected to his relationship with Mum or connected to a partner relationship. The lord of the 7th house in the SR is mercury, partile at the bendings and in the 8th...
Just my quick impression and thoughts!
Regards,
Tienka

Hi all,

Before everything, I don't think he lived a long life. Part of Fortune is afflicted by peregrine Saturn(lord of 4th) AND peregrine Mars(lord of 7th and 2nd). Sinister square, conjunction, no reception. Testimony of 4th and 7th strongly denotes harmful influence to the matter of life and death(malefics easily become killing planets with disposition over those houses). Jupiter protects Fortune to some degree as domicile lord, but he is retrograde and dexter sextile is much weaker. Venus would help better with her sinister sextile.

It seems, in many natal charts, native tends to suffer an early death with severely afflicted Fortune, even if Hyleg and Alcochoden are healthy. Regulus is not a good sign for longevity in this case, of course. If birthtime is accurate, Antares on Fortune will cut down his lifespan as much again. Period of Saturn as major firdar lord can be dangerous for the native, especially with Mars and Saturn in profection.

If transsaturnian planets are allowed, there could be a lengthy struggling against disease of unknown etiology. Look at Fortune and the Moon - How tragic. Psychopathic? a rare neurological disorder? or caught up in some massive disaster? I don't know.

Saturn could be significant adversity other than lifespan and disease. As ruler of 4th house he is located in 12th by whole sign, and 12th is 9th for 4th. I think religious belief and world view of native's father or grandfather would negatively affect native's mental make-up. Childhood trauma or something, from paternal source.

Primary directed Ascendant reaches the Saturn square point and conjunction Mars at 65-70. Perhaps these years might have been bad for his health.

very interesting chart to be sure-
While Venus is strong in the Ascendant and her domicile, the Almuten is Saturn, who is peregrine and under the beams. I would say this person had a youthful look, but was not overly attractive.
Venus is the professional significator, so this man was an artist, though I would say the arts were expressed intellectually not physically. Venus does aspect the MC, but Mercury is in closer aspect. The Moon is in the first sign, he is a dreamer, an imaginative soul. The Moon is in a stronger position than Mercury, he is lead by his emotions, not rational thought. Further Mercury is in the 12th/Virgo. He may have had mental afflictions or at least morose thoughts. While the Moon seperates from Venus and applies to the Sun, I don't think this person achieved a extraordinary amount of fame, though would have had his times of professional recognition.
He is driven by his own devices, dedicated to his thoughts and attributes he tries to express these things artistically, though harbors deep depression and anxiety about secret enemies and authorities. Mercury in the 12th and the Sun applies to Saturn.
While the ascendant is strong, the planets involved are usually determined toward indulgence and bad health practices. With the Sun as Hilaj and Kadukudah in the 11th/Leo, he should give near 70 years. However, I would add Venus's minor years being conjunct the Ascendant and subtract Saturn's years for being within orb of the Sun's conjunction. This would give an approximate age of 45-47 year old when the native would have health issues, possibly related to lifestyle habits.
Further the square between Mars and Saturn is a sign of oppression. At first glance this chart seems to be of a person who enjoyed a certain amount of freedom from obstacle and success in life. But upon further inspection I see someone who is full of intention and ideas, but is bound by the responsibilities and obstructions around him. The first house is strong, but that is the native and his motivations, his pursuit of personal happiness. The circumstances surrounding the Ascendant (his objective life) are plagued somewhat by the malefics and an inability to be supported by the benefics.
Short answer-
Struggling artist who achieved some fame but died impoverished.

I was trying to see 1908, but didn?t know if it was before or after the solar return...

apparently was a very busy year... indications of fame, but I am not convinced that it would be positive. also he was kind of young, so I don?t know where to look for. could be something so big as his first public recognition or something as trivial as being expelled from college. Too many options to consider, he could be a beggar at this time for all that we know.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5362

In case people want to know who are subject is, otherwise, keep away!