Kren,
I do hope that your friend recovers; it just goes to show how transient or unpredictable life can be; we should be thankful for every waking and healthy moment that we are given...

"Pete:"

What I was going to say about the chart was that I thought she had a good chance to get the job based on the fact that her ruler, Jupiter, is in the turned 10th in M/R with Venus, ruling her 10th, but there were two points that puzzled me: first - the immediate application of the Moon to conjunct Pluto on your friends ascendant (11th cusp), and secondly the fact that Mars translates the light from Jupiter to Saturn, with Saturn sitting on her 8th house cusp and ruling her 3rd house.

That's fascinating, Pete. In retrospect, the conjunction of the Moon to Pluto is so obvious and formidable. (These malefics will be the end of us!!) It's one degree, right? Do you see a correspondence in the time frames? I don't have the chart before me..

Maurice McCann - an astrologer I respect very much - has noticed that when 3 planets are involved in a translation or collection of light they become locked into each other and this cuts them off from any further involvement in the rest of the chart.

Yes, but doesn't all translation and collection involve atleast 3 planets? And what does it mean that it cuts them off from any further involvement and how does it apply to this chart?

Thanks.

The final aspect of the Moon is the square to Mercury, ruler of her turned 6th. And if we don't take into consideration the outer planets (i.e. Pluto), then, in fact, it's the only aspect that the Moon makes before it changes signs. That's pretty telling as well, isn't it?
It would appear to me that this horary is perhaps not answering the question asked, but instead telling what actually happened. Pete, I know you have often said that a horary chart should be used solely to answer the question that is asked, and the horary should not be used to delineate anything further. What would you say about this?

Kren, I do hope your friend recovers. It seems almost wrong to analyze this chart based on what happened, a woman is fighting for her life. My apologies if I am out of place here....

That's fascinating, Pete. In retrospect, the conjunction of the Moon to Pluto is so obvious and formidable. (These malefics will be the end of us!!) It's one degree, right? Do you see a correspondence in the time frames? I don't have the chart before me..

Well on March 23rd Kren posted that her friend had been involved in an accident "last week". This would put the date of the accident at sometime between March 14th and 20th. The horary was drawn up on March 4th: two weeks previously. The Moon applies to Pluto in less than one degree and the Moon is fast, so the time correspondence is clear: within the month.

Yes, but doesn't all translation and collection involve atleast 3 planets?

Yes, as it does in this case. Mars is translating the light from Jupiter to Saturn. Mars is two degrees from the opposition to Saturn, so the timing is two *something*. As it turned out it was two weeks to the accident.

And what does it mean that it cuts them off from any further involvement and how does it apply to this chart?

Garry Phillipson's interview with Maurice McCann in "The Traditional Astrologer", issue 17, is fascinating. In part, McCann uses the simile of radio signals when refering to the energies of the planets. At one point he says this:

"Another thing is this: where you have one translation of light - the Moon with Venus and Mars; and Mercury is applying to conjunct the Venus, and is within orb. That Mercury cannot aspect the Venus because the Venus is involved in the trio with the Moon and Mars. Once they are in translation, other planets cannot apply to them. They are kept out. Also, whilst they are in the trio, they cannot go out and aspect another planet.. This blew me away! I felt the hair stand on end when I discovered that. There are games being played up in the sky with three planets. They get together in a little gang, and they won't let anybody join. And they won't let anybody leave. They are locked in there until as time goes by they change, and join other gangs........that's what I have experienced with horary work; it was the only plausible and consistent wayI could find to answer the problems I found in charts."

That whole passage is fascinating enough, but then he says something that made *my* hair stand on end when I read it again just now:

"Imagine a chart were the Moon translates Venus to Mars. Now say the Sun is trying to conjunct Venus - or Venus is applying to the Sun. That would be combustion, which is bad; but because Venus is in that translation the Sun can't touch it. So this brings up another idea: because the Sun is in orb for combustion...it should destroy Venus, but it can't because Venus is tied in with this triangle. So the Sun's power is suddenly taken away because of the translation; the Sun should destroy Venus, and it can't do it."

Now *that* is a fascinating point of interpretation!

In this chart, Jupiter - Kren's friend - is "locked into" the translation of light with Mars and Saturn. Mars has grabbed Jupiter, if you will, and is taking it to Saturn. Both Saturn and Mars are traditional malefics and here they are joint almuten-rulers of the 12th house. This suggests not only will she not get the job but it offers the reason why: Mars, Saturn, 12th house - hospitalisation. Jupiter rules the turned 12th as well, so this house is highlighted twice in the translation.
Sorry for the long-winded reply but I wanted to include the quotes from the interview to clarify McCann's ideas.
==
Pete

The final aspect of the Moon is the square to Mercury, ruler of her turned 6th. And if we don't take into consideration the outer planets (i.e. Pluto), then, in fact, it's the only aspect that the Moon makes before it changes signs. That's pretty telling as well, isn't it?
It would appear to me that this horary is perhaps not answering the question asked, but instead telling what actually happened. Pete, I know you have often said that a horary chart should be used solely to answer the question that is asked, and the horary should not be used to delineate anything further. What would you say about this?

I always take applying aspects to or from the primary significator first. Such aspects will give the answer and I only use the Moon if the primary sigs are not in contact. Here, Jupiter is involved in a powerful translation of light that perfected in 2 degrees and imo this translation brought the answer.
To me the horary *is* answering the question directly, T. It is saying that Jenny would not get the job because sadly she is about to be involved in something deeply traumatic.
While it's true that the Moon's final aspect is a square to the ruler of the turned 6th house, I see this as a confirmatory back-up only in this case. Besides, how could anyone ignore Pluto in this horary? It's so *there*, isn't it?
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Pete

Hi to Pete and Taurus7,

The timing of horary is almost metaphysical to me. Just like the timing of an accident. This accident took place on March 17 at 10:00 pm exactly. A friend of mine lives close by and acutally heard the crash. A teenager going more than twice the posted speed of 40 mph lost control of his truck and hit her small car. He came across 4 lanes to arrive at point of impact. She was going the speed limit. (This according to accident investigation.) 30 seconds earlier or 30 seconds later, they would have missed each other.

And all of life is like that, isn't it?

Have you seen other examples of the Moon applying to conjunction with Pluto that resulted in similar circumstances?

She is holding her own. A few steps forward, a few steps back. No basic change.

Kren

The timing of horary is almost metaphysical to me. Just like the timing of an accident. This accident took place on March 17 at 10:00 pm exactly.

Hi Kren,
this is 13 days after the question was asked. Notice how Mars wants two degrees to "deliver" Jupiter to Saturn. Two weeks. Damn!

30 seconds earlier or 30 seconds later, they would have missed each other.
And all of life is like that, isn't it?

Yes it is. It is so often about being in the appointed place at the appointed time, but sometimes this can have a happy outcome too, let's not forget.

Have you seen other examples of the Moon applying to conjunction with Pluto that resulted in similar circumstances?

I can't remember, off the top of my head. Perhaps someone else can give an example, if not of the Moon to Pluto then of the Moon to one of the other outers?

She is holding her own. A few steps forward, a few steps back. No basic change.

Where there's life there's hope Kren....
==
Pete

In this chart, Jupiter - Kren's friend - is "locked into" the translation of light with Mars and Saturn. Mars has grabbed Jupiter, if you will, and is taking it to Saturn. Both Saturn and Mars are traditional malefics and here they are joint almuten-rulers of the 12th house. This suggests not only will she not get the job but it offers the reason why: Mars, Saturn, 12th house - hospitalisation. Jupiter rules the turned 12th as well, so this house is highlighted twice in the translation.

Pete,

Wow! That's amazing - I am astounded by this, I never knew about the planet "lock out"...Thank you for the explanation. I always throw in a few digs at you, but this time --- I'm speechless!

- T -

Have you seen other examples of the Moon applying to conjunction with Pluto that resulted in similar circumstances?

I can't remember, off the top of my head. Perhaps someone else can give an example, if not of the Moon to Pluto then of the Moon to one of the other outers?

I did a horary for a friend where she asked the question "What will happen in the next month". The Moon was applying to Uranus in less than a degree, so I indicated that something sudden and unexepected and unpleasant may happen soon. The very next day, she had severe pains in her stomach, and had to go into the emergency ward because it was so bad. And she mentioned the horary....
I wish I had the chart data but I can't find it.....
It's amazing how this stuff works.
- T -