A few text briefly say about poor concentration power of a native if sat is associated with 3H
May some body throw more light on the topic?
ramesh

Hi, ramesh.

I've been interested in this area ever since I took up learning astrology: learning disabilities, poor concentration, hyperactivity, troubles in speech but also photographic memory, great concentration etc. From this standpoint I don't think it is possible to give an answer to this question in a nutshell. Not because the traditional signs of difficulties (of any kind) do not work but because it is impossible to make a definite conclusion based upon a single placement. For what its worth, Saturn can be exalted inside the 3rd. The Native might have a very solid Mercury, or an unafflicted ascendant ruler or any other sign that would initially suggest that we are talking about a down to earth person, a good learner, a person capable of focusing his or her mind onto the desired object/activity with much ease etc. Taking all the testimonies into account is of all the importance.
The reason why I find this area so interesting is probably coming from the fact that i have more than one clear sign of difficulties in speech including Mercury (my Ascendant ruler) inside the 12th and opposing the Moon. And yet, I have never experienced any difficulties in that area. Quite the opposite - I started reading at the age of three, I've been participating in speech contests since I was a toddler and, by the time I was 16 I was already fluent in 3 foreign languages. I even chose a very mercury-type of profession. Examining the shape of Mercury was probably my first big lesson in astrology - every chart is very complex and it is absolutely impossible to ground the whole reading or the description of the personality in a single placement.
Saturn is slow and cold and traditionally refered to as the Greater malefic and it is no wonder that its placement inside the 3rd imports the possibility of difficulties, lack of discipline or interrupted studies. but, at the same time, a strong Saturn can actually increase the self-discipline and be an initial sign of a studious scientist, a dweller and a dedicated learner.
So, besides taking all other important factors into account, determining the shape of Saturn is extremely important as well> the Ascendant, the ruler of the 3rd and any planets inside that house, the Mercury.
As for concentration in particular, I think that it is worth keeping in mind that our ability to focus is something that we can't really express as a constant. Unless there are signs of some 'chronic' illness , mental disability or any other condition that has poor concentration or learning disability as a symptom and inaslong as we are talking about a healthy person - the 'power' of right concentration is something that can be improved and literally learnt. (Eastern cultures are well aware of this which is why meditation practice is widely nourished throughout the East. )

Another important thing is that concentration is often in a profound relationship with our emotions which is why, besides the planets that rule our cognitive capacities, the emotional side of the personality should also be thoroughly examined. Any obvious sign of an unwanted interference of the emotions with the cognitive skills and behaviour can be examined as a trigger for poor concentration. Again, it isn't a terminal punishment - it is something that the Native should be warned of so that he or she could strengthen his or her own weakness (with professional help, by using different techniques or, in some situations, on their own).

From what I've read, Vedic astrologers also consider the Moon nodes and, so far, I've noticed that the nodes just might have their fingers in this.


Cheers!

A few text briefly say about poor concentration power of a native if sat is associated with 3H
May some body throw more light on the topic?
ramesh

It's difficult to generalize such things. The mind and temperment itself tends to involve Mercury and the Moon the most, and also the ASC ruler (their placement, condition and aspects). Some say the Moon is involved more in the imagination (right brain) whereas Mercury is your logic (left brain). If Saturn is involved with these influences, it may have a greater impact in how you think (which is true in my case - Mercury and my ASC ruler Moon both touch Saturn). We come across Mercury combustions, Mercury in detriment/fall and the native is brilliant (there is another recent post on detriment/fall and Mercury). In the case of combustion they might just keep their thoughts to themselves more or hide parts of their personality from others, etc. I don't always find it to be true that it makes the native have poor logic or concentration. My mother has very poor concentration and learning disabilities and she does have Mercury in Sagittarius and also a Uranus opp that makes her mind very restless. She is also very mutable/unstable otherwise though.

I have Saturn in the 3rd house and a Mercury-Saturn trine with an accidentally/essentially dignified Mercury receiving Saturn (my ASC ruler Moon also squares Saturn, giving me a melancholy, serious personality) and I don't see myself as having poor concentration. In fact, I can spend many, many hours reading, studying and focusing on one thing. I can become obsessed with whatever I am learning and advance quickly (although boredom is a problem because of my Sag Moon). I have excelled in music, science and mathematics and have my degree in biology (minors in chemistry and Latin). Saturn is a very serious planet and he can add weight to an influence, although he can pose obstacles too. What Saturn in the 3rd shows for me mainly is discipline in 3rd house matters and that I have trouble communicating with others I do not know well. People perceive me as shy when I am not because of this placement. We tend to be more serious people, in general, too. People that don't know a Saturn in the 3rd can assume that they are stupid, shy, etc. because they can be silent, but it is often just someone else's perception of you. We can sometimes have speech problems too, and I stutter sometimes when I am nervous. One modern astrologer also states that Saturn there can cause breathing problems, like asthma. That is true for me, but I see other things in my chart that point that. Saturn might have different rulership in your chart, but Saturn in mine rules the 7th and 8th. I have debt (8th) from supporting my sisters (3rd), my sisters have shaped how I view relationships too (7th). I have had poor communications in love and disappointment. You might have elder siblings or could lose a sibling prematurely. I am the youngest in my family. There can be a postponed or prolonged education. My education was prolonged because I worked while in school.

Tanit wrote:

A few text briefly say about poor concentration power of a native if sat is associated with 3H
May some body throw more light on the topic?
ramesh

There can be a postponed or prolonged education. My education was prolonged because I worked while in school.

Regarding the issue of education, I?ve seen that in many cases Saturn transiting the third house of a person has to do with that person going back to school to finish their studies, or enrolling in higher education courses.

Best to you.

Melina

Dear agalya & tanit,
Thanks for input. yes you are right that matter can not be generalised.
The case specific is Sco Asc. And sat posited in 11H with direct aspect of Jup and Mer from 5H.Here Mer is lord of 8H and 11H
Here Sat lords 3H and 4H. The 4H has Su,Ve and north node.
Does this feedback helps you?
Ramesh

Yes moon posited in 10H and Mar in 12 H

Tanit,
you are right aspect of sat on mercury sometimes kills your skills to tackle the critical situations .Well it again depends on lot other factors in a nativity
ramesh

Tanit wrote:
The mind and temperment itself tends to involve Mercury and the Moon the most, and also the ASC ruler (their placement, condition and aspects). Some say the Moon is involved more in the imagination (right brain) whereas Mercury is your logic (left brain).

Mercury is my Asc ruler and it is in an applying opposition with the Moon. My left side of the brain is in constant fight with my right side.
(And my mercury is partile conjunct Jupiter which is why I often make fun of that fact)

We come across Mercury combustions, Mercury in detriment/fall and the native is brilliant (there is another recent post on detriment/fall and Mercury). In the case of combustion they might just keep their thoughts to themselves more or hide parts of their personality from others, etc.

True. retrograde and non afflicted Mercury prefers writing down its thoughts . It likes to read but it isn't as chatty as one might expect from such a planet.

Since you have already mentioned your mother - my mom has a strong Martian influence. She has always been a brilliant student. She'd finish two academic years in a single year, she was assisting her teachers in highschool and she has been a teacher herself for almost 30 years. She has an enormous knowledge, she is very eloquent and learns easily. And yet , she has the poorest concentration in the world. A real disperse mind. She was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder and has been through a few extremely hard phases of her illness (as you can imagine, such patients easily become addicted to prescribed drugs). That is where the Moon makes a complete mess in her case. It is in a multiple rolling conjunction with Saturn and Neptune and squaring combust Mars in cancer. She worries too much about everything, has sudden panic attacks but can also be very arrogant. She is 57 and often acts like a spoilt kid. (It is obvious from my chart as well - the opposition of the Moon to my Ascendant ruler was a good sign of an overprotective mother). So, she is a brilliant learner with a very disperse mind. (Cancerian Marsis really something special ( in her case, it rulers the ascendant and it is combust in her sun sign).

I have Saturn in the 3rd house and a Mercury-Saturn trine with an accidentally/essentially dignified Mercury receiving Saturn...I can spend many, many hours reading, studying and focusing on one thing.

That is exactly the kind of influence that I had in mind when i said that Saturn inside the 3rd with good Mercury can make a great learner and a person capable of spending hours and hours reading, thinking and writing. Thanks for sharing this!\

I can become obsessed with whatever I am learning and advance quickly

I know what that is like!

What Saturn in the 3rd shows for me mainly is discipline in 3rd house matters and that I have trouble communicating with others I do not know well. People perceive me as shy when I am not because of this placement. We tend to be more serious people, in general, too.

I have Saturn inside the 1st - people always think that I'm serious, angry and much older when they first seem me. Those who don't know me and have only seen me a few times even say that I look very serious and strict. People who have never met me, usually describe me as a very saturn-type of person and assume that that I am a Leo (My Asc ruler is in Leo and it really does affect my appearance) but, people who know me, usually describe me as a prank maker and a chatty person (my Mercury is conjunct Jupiter) .