"Oranje boven?" Octopus Paul has just said "no". Spain will be the winner - Holland once again "no 2".

So he did. I didn't think he'd be making any prognosis now that germany is not in the game any more. Well, than you, paul!
Though, if I recall it well, he made a mistake before the final match of the European championship in 2008. He predicted that germany would win!

Paul (thank God) can make mistakes - what he says is true in eight out of ten - which is quite good, isn't it?
He has so far made no mistake durong the World Cup.
As to Spain - here is the modern chart (1975) followed by the traditional one (1479):
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/countries/spain.php
Regards
LL

During the Final match, Moon is hemmed in between South Node and Sun. Moon's position will play very important role, I think. I believe that it will be decided through Penalty shoot out.

Rohan wrote:During the Final match, Moon is hemmed in between South Node and Sun. Moon's position will play very important role, I think. I believe that it will be decided through Penalty shoot out.

But it will also be Cazimi during one huge part of the match.

what he says is true in eight out of ten

Nooooo, he only made one mistake and he was only a few months old back then. Babies make mistakes, now he is a serious grown up octopus.
Besides, it's my birthday on Sunday- i decide who wins!

I have just checked - the Moon becomes Cazimi at 21.11h , just before the end of the first half. It is protected during the next 41min , 15 of which belong to the half time. it again becomes combust at 21.52h. So, it will be burnt during one huge part of the match.
It is also interesting that the Moon performs the sextile to Mars at 21.17 which, unless the fourth judge shows at least 2 (if not three) minutes of extra time, is also during the break.


Now, back to the octopus. It would be interesting to see the charts cast for the moment when Paul made his predictions or at least for the time when they were made public. That would give us a handful of interesting charts to study now that we know that the rumours were mainly true.

aglaya wrote:
I saw your post a few days ago and, though I'm aware that Lilly puts Spain under the rulership of Jupiter, I thought that the Ascendant ruler made more sense. The ruler of the modern chart (1975.) puts the Ascendant into Aquarius and, like you already said, the traditional chart also puts there. (Why did Lilly decide to put it under the rulership of Jupiter?)

Hi aglaya,

Lilly was just following the tradition as usual. The stems from Claudius Ptolemy and his suggestions on mundane astrology in his book the Tetrabiblos. In particular, Book 2, Chapter 3 where he attributes the planet Jupiter and sign of Sagittarius to Spain (which was known as Celtiberia then!). Many of our traditional attributions of countries to signs stem directly back to Ptolemy. For example, he attributes Aries and the planet Mars to to Britain and Germany and Leo and the Sun to Italy. His approach was not based on core foundation charts but rather a directional astrology where particular directions are aligned to signs. In particular, Ptolemy divided the known world into four quarters and further sub-divided these into further quarters. You will have come across this kind of directional approach if you do lost property horary astrology.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... trabiblos/

MarkC wrote:
Lilly was just following the tradition as usual. The stems from Claudius Ptolemy in his Tetrabiblos ( Book 2, Chapter 3) where he attributes the planet Jupiter and sign of Sagittarius to Spain (which was known as Celtiberia then!)./

On the other hand Cardano gives Cancer to "Holandia(m)"

margherita

On the other hand Cardano gives Cancer to "Holandia(m)"

Hi Margherita,

Good point. The whole subject of how countries acquired associations with signs is very interesting. Ptolemy, is clearly a core source but lots of other astrologers built on his work over the centuries. Anyway, I better not get carried away. This is not the traditional forum. I think I will open a thread on this over there at some point.

Mark

MarkC wrote: Ptolemy, is clearly a core source but lots of other astrologers built on his work over the centuries. Anyway, I better not get carried away. This is not the traditional forum. I think I will open a thread on this over there at some point.

Mark

I'm lost here.
I was thinking to Spain-Holland, and you?
Which other thread?

margherita

Margherita wrote:

I'm lost here.
I was thinking to Spain-Holland, and you?
Which other thread?

Well yes obviously. However, I also hope to start a bigger discussion on the traditional forum of Skyscript on these zodiacal associations and their original sources. Sorry, I guess I was thinking aloud in my last post.

Mark

MarkC wrote: Hi aglaya,

Lilly was just following the tradition as usual. His approach was not based on core foundation charts but rather a directional astrology where particular directions are aligned to signs. In particular, Ptolemy divided the known world into four quarters and further sub-divided these into further quarters. You will have come across this kind of directional approach if you do lost property horary astrology.

Got it! The rulership in accordance with the geographic position (direction).
It does look like the safest way in many cases.

I think I will open a thread on this over there at some point.

Please do! It is a very interesting topic.

margherita wrote:On the other hand Cardano gives Cancer to "Holandia(m)"

I'm lost here.
I was thinking to Spain-Holland

Lilly also puts Holland (Netherlands) under the rulership of Moon (and Cancer).

Got it! The rulership in accordance with the geographic position (direction). It does look like the safest way in many cases.

Well in theory yes.

However, the known world to Ptolemy was only Europe, North Africa, SW Asia, Central Asia, India and the the western part of China in the east. It makes his methodology a bit tricky to apply with a a World cup based on teams from 6 continents! I have been giving thought to how one might apply Ptolemy's method to the modern world incorporating the Americas, sub-saharan Africa, East Asia and Australasia.

Mark

The discussion is getting hot now Where are our experts? Ficina, Daz, Goca, Janis where are u? We are running out of time. Do not take extra time Octopus has given the verdict. But our experts agree with him????