BiBi wrote:
you mentioned square to the east point and west point axis, I believe Jim does not count squares to EP/WP just straight conjuncts up to three degrees.

After checking Jim?s book, you are correct. Jim says: the East Point/West Point ?acts like an angle, intensifying the significance of a planet conjoining this point.? Thanks for the correction. Matthew considers hard harmonic 8 aspects to the angles as important symbolic factors and I tend to agree based on my astrological experiences. This is what created my confused miss statement with Jim's original teachings on the East Point.

Regards, Steve

The Chart above is Bush?s Solar Quotidian Day for Sept. 11, 2001, the World Trade Center disaster. The Chart is computed in the Sidereal Zodiac which needs no correction for Precession. You can compute this same Chart in the Tropical Zodiac, correcting for Precession, and get the same mundane wheel placements for the planets-- but different cusp degrees for the two zodiacs. However, you will notice a slight variation with Bush?s Natal Saturn in the Tropical Zodiac on the MC verses his Natal Saturn on the MC in the Sidereal Zodiac. Technically speaking, all planetary Natal positions need to be corrected for Precession, hence the importance for correcting for Precession for the Tropical Zodiac in order to get the correct Clock Time for an accurate timed Solar Return. But, the main point is to demonstrate the importance of Quotidian Charts with Nativities. On Sept 11, 2001, Bush experienced the first in his life- Natal Saturn (MC) Paran to his Secondary Progressed Solar Return Moon (IC). The inside wheel is Bush?s progressed 2001 Solar Return; the outside wheel is Bush?s Natal Chart. Parans forming on Solar Return Quotidian angles, with Solar Planets or Natal Planets, are the most potent planetary configurations found in astrology.

?This, then, isolates the Moon as the most crucial agent in a Solar Return, after the angles. Lunar aspects to natal and solar planets can never be treated lightly, even when rather wide in orb. So remarkable is this single factor that, if lunar aspects are nearly exact while the foreground planets are not exceptionally close to the angles, the solar Moon can be the primary theme-setter of the chart for the year ahead, bar none.? Jim Eshelman, page 64, ?Interpreting Solar Returns?.

As we can see, Jim?s above statement proves how Bush?s 2001 Solar Return dominated his entire Solar Year with his Secondary Progressed Solar Moon forming a Quotidian Paran with his Natal Saturn on Sept.11, 2001. Again, this Solar Quotidian example demonstrates how just ONE QUODIDIAN DAY can at times act as precise astrological surgical tools for triggering very significant events in our lives. But more importantly, at least to me, these Quotidian Charts demonstrate there is a definite Sacred Science of Astronomy, with pure intrinsic symbolic nature of the planets, intertwined with our lives. To me this is absolutely awe inspiring! Cyril Fagan re-discovered the astronomy/math that allows an astrologer, with an accurate timed birth chart, to extent this birth moment to an accurately timed Solar Return; and then extends the Solar Return to a precisely calculated Quotidian Day, which at times exactly calculates to the day, the nature of significant events in our lives with planetary symbolism. This is truly an amazing mystery!

Steve

This is one of my favorite charts, it suggest an awful lot of synchronicty. It suggest that maybe he did not cheat in the 2000 election or that maybe the hand of fate approved some cheating for a possible greater good that the US has yet to see from the 9/11 attacks.

I know what you mean BiBi.

It?s a huge mystery to my mind to ponder the reality that Bush?s one and only Secondary Progressed Solar Return Moon Paran to Natal Saturn on 9/11/2001, located to Washington DC, was astrologically calculated by a beginning Clock Moment of a Natal Birth Time?then a relocated Solar Return?then a Quotidian Day Chart. How can the Celestial Heavens and their Bodies symbolically orchestrate with the greater malific of Saturn, to the DAY, something like this for a person? This is definitely a great mystery and it is uniquely allowed to the minds of astrologers to ponder?no one else.

Steve

some literature should be composed on this subject! Perhaps a new sub-branch of Astrology could be created! What I have noticed though from my own experience is that it seems to be quite elusive, kind of like studying the smallest particles of the universe. Once you find a real way to observe them, it's almost as though they disappear when being observed.

BiBi wrote pertaining to quotidians:
?What I have noticed though from my own experience is that it seems to be quite elusive?

Indeed?quotidian analysis is ?quite elusive?. Yet, when there are significant events, many times the quotidian charts offer superb planetary symbolism for ?out of ordinary? events in native?s lives. Quotidian Charts is the only astrological technique I have studied that will calculate an event to the exact day of the event with pure celestial astronomy and intrinsic planetary symbolism. We are dealing with a very high mathematical order involving astrology.

BiBi wrote:
some literature should be composed on this subject! Perhaps a new sub-branch of Astrology could be created!

I totally agree! But very few astrologers have even heard of Quotidian Charts; and, it would take a specialized computer program in order for the astrologer to do a complete time window analysis with the ?daily? quotidian charts in order to isolate the important quotidian days?in advance. If this program could be developed?it could revolutionize the sight of astrologers.

Steve

Great topic Steve, with lots of information not only about quotidian s , but also about solar returns partile aspects,the precessed reason (although I am not astrologer, I am an avid reader on astrology and never heard about) and the examples.

The examples on the quotidian?s (never heard about too) are very illustrative and I think, that It would be helpful to to support the technique with documentation in order to arrive to acceptable static figures. Probably in that case the Solar Fire company - or other -, may try to introduce, the different variables that Mathew Qellas referred to.

After reading some quotes on solar returns by Jim Eshelman?s, I checked up the technique with a severe health accident happened to a close relative. I believe that one could be very subjective when we know the time of the event - mostly in an amateur like me -. Taking this on account I made all the precessed SR returns for the person. I found that SR year of the accident was very meaningful for three reasons.

I don?t know the exact day of the accident and I don?t think I will have it since is not an easy subject to talk with the person. Anyway I have the period within 15 days of that year.

I will post on the details of the case in a near future.

Regards,

Sebastian

Hi Sebastian, glad you are enjoying this topic?I know with my heart there is a-lot of astrological truth contained in this topic?that?s why I introduced the topic. Sometimes words don?t do justice to these astrological truths?but what really justifies these astrological truths is when one can take their own charts and prove to themselves these astrological truths. In the end, it always comes down to one?s own experience with their own individual charts to prove a sound astrological technique.

Sebastian wrote:
The examples on the quotidians (never heard about too) are very illustrative and I think, that It would be helpful to support the technique with documentation in order to arrive to acceptable static figures. Probably in that case the Solar Fire company - or other -, may try to introduce, the different variables that Mathew Quellas referred to.

I definitely understand where you are coming from. Years ago, I talked with the developer of Solar Fire about implementing a new section within Solar Fire pertaining to quotidians, and was told it would require a-lot of changes that would be very expensive. Matthew was willing to work closely with Solar Fire but Solar Fire was not interested. The reason for this is Solar Fire knows there is no market demand from other astrologers pertaining to quotidians. There is no market demand because as a whole, the community of astrologers is not aware of Fagan?s innovative technique for quotidians.

Regards, Steve

I think we should at least do a sub-discussion on lunar returns!

BiBi wrote:
I think we should at least do a sub-discussion on lunar returns!

Lunar Returns, at times, offer excellent symbolism. All life (including astrological life) on Earth resonates to 3 main interlocking cycles: the day (quotidian charts), the month (lunar return charts), and the year (solar return charts). These 3 interlocking cycles are represented respectively by our daily individual angles (quotidian charts). The Moon-Sun phase with the returns of our Natal Moons (lunar return charts), and the Earth?s yearly orbit around the Sun (our solar return charts). These 3 main interlocking cycles were historically and astronomically/astrologically correlated by the ancient Egyptian miracle, long before the Greek miracle.

Whenever I see what I consider a dynamic Solar Return Chart (most solar returns are not set up dynamically), I immediately run out the 13 Lunar Returns with the Advanced Return Section in Solar Fire. This only takes a couple of minutes to compute the 13 Lunar Returns. I am looking for lunar returns with very tight/partile planetary aspects with the Lunar Return Angles along with tight/partile aspects with other planets aspecting the tight/partile angular planet. In most cases this will time the month when the Solar Return symbolism will manifest. Most lunar returns will not feature a tight/partile angular planet. This whole process takes me about five minutes?I personally keep Lunar Return analysis simple. However, I have seen other astrologers do very elaborate lunar return analysis with different types of lunar returns with their harmonic divisions trying to determine the week of a manifestation. I have found when you tell a client the month of important symbolism?this is close enough from a timing standpoint. I will later try to give you some lunar return examples with Obama, offering excellent timing symbolism in the context of what I considered a very dynamic 2009 Solar Return. Obama?s 2009 Solar Return along with his Naboid progressed chart, relocated to DC, offers excellent Saturn symbolism for his popularity in the polls plummeting. There were and are a couple of Obama's Lunar Returns that offer dead-on symbolism for certain events in his political life.

Steve

Above is Obama?s Naboid in RA Progressed Chart for Oct. 2009, relocated to DC. This marked the app. time when Obama popularity poll numbers began to fall. Notice the tight Saturn placement on his 7th House Cusp. Also Note, now the progressed 7th angle is now closer to his progressed Saturn, and by November?the mid-term elections?the progressed 7th angle will be partile and near exact conjunct progressed Saturn. Re-compute this same progressed Chart for now and Nov. and you will see what I mean. Also note all the other partile progressed aspects. They are: p Saturn partile 90 p Mars; p Saturn partile 90 p Mercury; p Saturn partile 135 p Pluto; p Mars partile conjunct p Mercury; p Mars p Mercury partile 45 p Pluto. Never in my life have I seen a progressed chart so afflicted with malefic aspects involving an angular Saturn. Polls are already predicting a political loss for Obama in the Nov. Mid-Term elections. Remember, most of the above partile aspects will still be in effect come Nov.2010. This Progressed Chart is somewhat off topic from an Excellent Solar Return book, ?Interpreting Solar Returns? but all of these partile aspects involved with an angular planet (Saturn) are the same teachings from this book.

Steve

Above is Obama?s Oct. 25th 2010 Precessed Lunar Return, relocated to Wash. DC preceding the Nov. Mid Term Elections. Note the tight angular placement of Neptune on the Ascendant. With my Lunar Return analysis, as explained in today?s other post, when I see tight or angular planetary placements with a Lunar Return?I pay attention?in most cases, especially when the angular planet is tight/partile aspected to other planets, you can discern ?outstanding incidents?. Also, note this angular placement of Neptune receives a tight 90 from an elevated Mars and a partile (near exact) 135 from Saturn. So, Obama?s angular Neptune on this Lunar Return is afflicted with aspects to both malefics.

Fagan says about angular Mars-Neptune Symbolism in return charts:

?Neptune always seems to involve crowds or at least many people in a high degree of emotional state and the native invariably seems to be the victim or center of attraction. The native is one against the multitude. Mars-Neptune many times will foretell symbolism of tormenting loss and disappointment.? Pg. 120, ?SoLunars.?

Bradley?s research with political return charts pertaining to Saturn-Neptune symbolism:

?A real throne-toppler, this configuration in return charts. Among its paramount keywords is ?removal,? for Saturn-Neptune surely takes first prize for forcing resignations, abdications, exiles, deportations, and firings from jobs.? Pg 55, ?Solar & Lunar Returns.?

Even though Obama cannot be voted out of office or fired, this Lunar Return is indeed an ominous indicator for the results of the Nov. Election. Time will tell.

Steve